10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

[bryce]

In a lot of the pre and post Trek '09 debates about the size of the new Enterprise 1701, the original size that Probert gave for the Enterprise-D (at around 700m) was often cited (to compare the nuEnterprise too) -- but doesn't the addition of the 10-forward, adding *3* decks to the front of the saucer, not just *1* - significantly change the size of the Enterprise-D (to a size I like better, personally...)

Thus change the size of the nuEnterprise in relation to it (*still* making the NCC-1701-D the bigger ship...?)

Or are we just gonna fudge-it and make the 1701-sauce front magically *thicker* (and thus everything else as it looks on the smaller model made later for the show....??

And if the E-D is no bigger - how much bigger *is* ir now? What is the new size of the E-D!?

(And damn, if the E-D is bigger - then those Spacedock-type Starbases are EVER MORE *GIGANTIC*!?!?!?)

the same)

Just wondering...

 

[Timo]

The size of the saucer rim is a somewhat subjective matter, as different photographic/CGI models of the ship feature different thicknesses, and these are used interchangeably throughout the seasons.

It doesn't seem as if we really need a third deck between the two window rows there, especially considering that the other window rows on the saucer do not change. The "deck" coinciding with the sensor strip is probably not walking-height, but merely a mass of machinery and the occasional Jeffries tube. See the pan-into-10-Fwd shots for how thin the sensor strip actually is in relation to the windows in the visual reality of the show...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

I don't think any Trek ship is consistently scaled. If you bump up Ten Forward, you break the scale of all the other windows on the ship (although I don't think they ever fitted precisely anyway - so many different window sizes on the model and just the one type on the sets), the observation lounge windows and the top of the bridge which shows quite clearly on the model. Ditto, if you scale up the nuEnterprise to the 1200m it's shuttlebay interior was scaled to, it breaks the scale on the observation domes on top and bottom of the saucer, the damaged corridors shown when the power cuts out, and the bridge window.

Just think of it as a dramatic licence, as is often used with the Statue of Liberty. It looks much bigger than it really is, and filmmakers tend to work to the perception rather than the fact.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Well, the topic was partially discussed in the fan art section. Since the final Ten Forward windows do not match the bow windows of the 6-footer VFX model, I tend to envision the location of Ten Forward to be the set of windows above the Captain's Yacht.

That should have been the optimal location in the first place, anyway.

Bob

 

[Mytran]

I agree, a much better location for many reasons.

Tough to rationalize the name "Ten Forward" though. Almost as if the name of the set came first, then the building of it...

 

[xvicente]

>I tend to envision the location of Ten Forward to be the set of windows above the Captain's Yacht.

>I agree, a much better location for many reasons.

​

^^^ yep, but for other many reasons it would't be to good. For starters, in that case the bar couldn't be caall neither TEN nor FORWARD

 

[Tallguy]

>I tend to envision the location of Ten Forward to be the set of windows above the Captain's Yacht.

>I agree, a much better location for many reasons.

​

^^^ yep, but for other many reasons it would't be to good. For starters, in that case the bar couldn't be caall neither TEN nor FORWARD

I must be spending too much time on io9. I tried to star your post.

 

[QuinnTV]

Well, the topic was partially discussed in the fan art section. Since the final Ten Forward windows do not match the bow windows of the 6-footer VFX model, I tend to envision the location of Ten Forward to be the set of windows above the Captain's Yacht.

How do you explain the exterior shot of Ten Forward that puts it on the saucer's edge? I can't recall, at the moment, which episode that was in.

 

[Albertese]

I wanna say early in Season 2, I'm pretty sure... a zoom in on Wesley Crusher.

--Alex

 

[Mytran]

Isn't it near the end of S2E1? A shot from the outside that includes a portion of the sensor array, I think.

 

[Robert Comsol]

How do you explain the exterior shot of Ten Forward that puts it on the saucer's edge? I can't recall, at the moment, which episode that was in.

I don't, but given the majority of externally visible shots and other items for size reference, as pointed out by King Daniel, I'm choosing the lesser of two (we)evils. YMMV

The window bay above the Captain's Yacht also faces "forward", so I don't see a problem here. Admittedly, the Ten Forward windows are not compatible with this window bay, but neither are they compatible with the central bow windows on the saucer section of the bigger 6-foot VFX model.

For all I know the "ten" could refer to the amount of tables or hospitality zones or else. But if one insisted, the "ten" were referring to the actual deck number, I'd wonder how tall the decks then would be on an Enterprise-D now almost twice the size of Andrew Probert's creation...

Bob

 

[Timo]

Of course, as the bar is captained by a comedian who speaks like a trucker when need be and plays a "listener", the name could simply be a twist on "10-4"...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Robert Comsol]

"10-4"? That's just a fracking brilliant rationalization.

Bob

 

[Mario de Monti]

... I'm choosing the lesser of two (we)evils.

 

[bryce]

The size of the saucer rim is a somewhat subjective matter, as different photographic/CGI models of the ship feature different thicknesses, and these are used interchangeably throughout the seasons.

It doesn't seem as if we really need a third deck between the two window rows there, especially considering that the other window rows on the saucer do not change. The "deck" coinciding with the sensor strip is probably not walking-height, but merely a mass of machinery and the occasional Jeffries tube. See the pan-into-10-Fwd shots for how thin the sensor strip actually is in relation to the windows in the visual reality of the show...

Timo Saloniemi

We actually DID see a Jeffries Tube just above 10-FOrward in the episode where those "ghosts" took the crew hostage...

Makes sense, even if that who are is original human deck-height, it's probably stuffed with sensor equipment now, and needs a Jeffries Tube to access some of it for the interior.

Btw, anyone else miss those full-person height Jefferies tubes we saw a few times...one in ST:V, and once in that episode where that ex-soldier escapes. (And they remind me of the inter-deck tubes we saw in Enterprise "In A Mirror Darkly pt 2". I just think some "tubes" should be bigger, so large equipment could be moved through them. Plus not EVERY corridor in a Star Ship should be a comfy hotel-looking "hallway". But after..."The Hunted"(?) we never saw them again - like they never existed.

 

[bryce]

How do you explain the exterior shot of Ten Forward that puts it on the saucer's edge? I can't recall, at the moment, which episode that was in.

I don't, but given the majority of externally visible shots and other items for size reference, as pointed out by King Daniel, I'm choosing the lesser of two (we)evils. YMMV

The window bay above the Captain's Yacht also faces "forward", so I don't see a problem here. Admittedly, the Ten Forward windows are not compatible with this window bay, but neither are they compatible with the central bow windows on the saucer section of the bigger 6-foot VFX model.

For all I know the "ten" could refer to the amount of tables or hospitality zones or else. But if one insisted, the "ten" were referring to the actual deck number, I'd wonder how tall the decks then would be on an Enterprise-D now almost twice the size of Andrew Probert's creation...

Bob

I always wish that we had the budget and technology to see what was behind some of those windows! I imagine spaces like TMP's Rec Room...and various observation lounges, crew relaxation areas, diplomatic meeting/banquet rooms...*arboretums*...

I just always wondered because we saw a lot of window-fronted spaces like that on the E-D and E-E...and I always wanted to know what was behind them. Both the E-D and the E-E had space for LOTS of rooms as big as the TMP Rec Room...and not *everyone* probably just hung out in 10-Forward. (I would love to see a fan or professional artists conception of and Enterprise-D Rec Dec...)

 

[bryce]

And all respect to Probert (who's work I *LOVE*)...I always liked the idea of the bigger?massive ship that the 10-Forward implied. (And now it makes it STILL bigger than the JJ'Prise!)

But I guess when we saw all those movie models looking massive next to the E-D - the scale *wasn't* off like I thought...it was just right. But that doesn't seem right to me. To me, the E-D should be HUGE.

One of my biggest problems with the E-D is that the bigger windows...well, *do* make sense on a bigger ship. But part of my mind still see's them as the same says as the movie ship windows...so in *downscales* the Enterprise-D in my head. But maybe I'm seeing it as closer to the scale it was meant to be.

Wish I could see a comparison of both "sizes" of the ship, taking into account 10-forward.

 

[Robert Comsol]

IIRC, we had a couple of redresses of the conference lounge to represent different rooms.

The one I can instantly think of is the (actual) observation lounge facing forward with Picard in it in "Farpoint" but there were also other examples.

Bob

 

[anh165]

And all respect to Probert (who's work I *LOVE*)...I always liked the idea of the bigger?massive ship that the 10-Forward implied. (And now it makes it STILL bigger than the JJ'Prise!)

But I guess when we saw all those movie models looking massive next to the E-D - the scale *wasn't* off like I thought...it was just right. But that doesn't seem right to me. To me, the E-D should be HUGE.

One of my biggest problems with the E-D is that the bigger windows...well, *do* make sense on a bigger ship. But part of my mind still see's them as the same says as the movie ship windows...so in *downscales* the Enterprise-D in my head. But maybe I'm seeing it as closer to the scale it was meant to be.

Wish I could see a comparison of both "sizes" of the ship, taking into account 10-forward.

The Ent D overall is a larger ship than the JJPrise even at 641 meters, its just the nacelles of the the JJPrise are very long which gives the ship greater overall length.

 

[Tiberius]

Well, the topic was partially discussed in the fan art section. Since the final Ten Forward windows do not match the bow windows of the 6-footer VFX model, I tend to envision the location of Ten Forward to be the set of windows above the Captain's Yacht.

That should have been the optimal location in the first place, anyway.

Bob

Those "windows" are the saucer's deflector dish...