No, I had some of the same thoughts as you. I probably haven't gamed as much as my experience is mainly with WoW, but I played that on and off for a long time. It's always been fairly obvious that I'm a female player. I also played the "pretty" race, Blood Elf, once they came out. There were definitely some ick moments, but most of my experiences were good. If we are talking stereotyping, I'd say that more males treated me like a damsel in distress rather than being overtly sexual. But I think part of that is my personality and doesn't say a lot about the gaming community at large. I'm always wary of males who talk about their horrible experiences when they are mistake as female, including on this board. There are unfavorable people and experiences, but they've always been a distinct minority to me. Stereotyping in video games seems like a much more complicated issue with very diverse effects.
Some do. Especially players of RPGs. Think about it. If/when men simply want to LOOK AT sexy women, they sit at their laptops and download porn. Creating a sexy female character for an RPG or even an MMORPG is more fantasy/wish fulfillment than anything else. It partly reflects the fact that heterosexual men who want to express their own sexuality have no idea how to do this with MALE characters, and even if they do, aren't as interested in doing so. Seriously, ask yourself: what would a sexy MALE character even look like? You miss the point: in a role playing game, that's supposed to be YOUR ass. Depending on the nature of the RPG, it's the ass you designed for you own avatar, a representation of a fictional self. It's not a player dreaming of an idealized female image to oggle for a couple of hours. It's a player dreaming of an idealized female SELF and using that idealized self to interact with a fictional world. And it works in the opposite direction for female players: girls who go in using beefcake male avatars whose sole motivation is to achieve the identity of ultimate badass. In the end, it's not as simplistic as you'd like to believe. Men have always been fascinated by women for a variety of reasons, not just appearance; one of those reasons -- probably the most important in this context -- is the ironic fact that female gender roles will tolerate ALOT more variation than their male counterparts, not just in behavior but also in style, mannerisms, motivations, and self expression. Exploring those roles and adding new variations to them is an exercise in creativity; doing the same with a male character ceases to be mundane only when it starts to become creepy.
How does that actually send that message? How is that message by default "sexist", that saying that character is "nothing but a sex object? If that is true, by the same reasoning, you could say that about some pixelated beefcake who is a monosyllabic killing machine...but look at those lats. No, whether the image is "sexist" is much more complicated than that. More often than not, it's just cover for a bad game. Seeing something "sexist" in exaggerated physicality, imo, reveals more about the beholder, as do those who react to it with bestialness. But the image itself is just a cartoon.
Really? Quoting an above poster... Not according to the above poster. All it takes is the above image, context irrelevant. And though others have not been so direct about it...it sure as hell is implied. And yet, Lara Croft is the one thrown up, and that simply could not be further than the truth for her. She is capable, formidable, resourceful, intelligent and not dependent upon any male to see her through. And the games are well reviewed, by men and women. But because she is depicted as physically appealing in a cartoon way to men, and scantily clad, somehow this is STILL sexist. She is in no more of needing a "man" to protect her than any other character requiring someone to operate them. Exactly what I mean right there. Because you have to play her, like any other video game character you have to play...this is somehow sexist. Which is laughable. Don't go with ARRRGGHH or anyone else who is obviously leading with politics rather than gameplay.
Something that might shed some light on why feminists argue that the media, gaming included, sexually objectify women: http://youtu.be/3hne20_btpg
It's become evident by this point that you are simply not capable of grasping a nuanced argument, and can't refrain from deliberately confusing people's positions in order to make your weak and baseless points. So, I'll just say "good day" and rest easy knowing that progress will continue marching right over people like you.
No, I'm saying that the arguments aren't nearly as "nuanced" as you claim they are, at least on the parts of some of the debaters. And I will have a good day, knowing that I and people like me will continue to keep the self titled "progressives" honest. And I also take satisfaction in knowing that sex has sold since the beginning of human history, in all art and expression, always has, always will. And, depending on context, that isn't even a bad thing. Far from.
Being able to take satisfaction from moronic strawman arguments and feeling that you've "won" when all you've done is caused people to roll their eyes for you not understanding what the issues are. Yes, very impressive.
Complaining about the appearance of women in video games is akin to complaining about the appearance of men on the covers of romance novels. It's the characterization that's the greater concern, not whether she has big breasts or he has a six pack. It's basics of the basics. Men want to see attractive women, women want to see attractive men, whether it's in books, TV shows, movies, comics or video games. The important aspect is how these men/women are treated. Beyond their appearance are they treated as characters? If not, then they are simply sex objects which IS blatant sexism. At present male gamers are the market that is currently pandered to the most and this needs to be balanced out for women. Women want hot sexy male characters as well, they just are mature enough to want there's with characterization. That is unlike many male video gamers who don't have an ounce of maturity to see women beyond being sex objects, no matter how they are dressed. It is this that needs changing and it is best changed through a convincing narrative with good characterization. A bit off topic, but one aspect books (and in a way videogames) has that no other medium really has, is the ability to get inside of a characters head. As such you see things from their perspective and gain an understanding of them. When playing a game as a female character, the games writers need to show the world through that characters eyes. Basically, extremes not withstanding (like bikini armour in MMOs), the main problem is that female characters lack decent characterisation. ----- I wish I could remember the sites name, but there was a wonderful women gaming website that rated female characters, on everything from appearance to personality. Really was an interesting read.
I actually thought like you for a long time. I've played many female characters and never really noticed a difference. Then about a year ago, this became a topic of discussion one night with some of the gals in my guild. They said they were always treated differently than guys and that I'd never been because I "acted' like a guy when I was playing a female character. They even suggested I treated them differently. I didn't believe them, so they pointed out that I was often much quicker to drop whatever I was doing to help one of them than I might before for one of the other guys in the guild. To prove it to me, we did a little experiment. I created a new character and ran around incognito and pretended to be a newbie woman. The girls told me how to look, dress, and act in certain situations in order to convince others I was a gal gamer. Others in the guild help with the charade--as it was pretty much all that was being talked about on vent that week. I guess it worked because I eventually started being treated very differently than I had ever before. First I got a lot of the (as you say) damsel in distress. For one, I was gifted free stuff by people all the time: money, gear, what have you. Someone even crafted a whole set of purple gear and gave it to me pretty much at random. I never had a problem finding help, and kind of had an EZ-Mode experience. Then there was the other side of the coin. I did some PvP and purposely (or not so purposely ) played poorly. The negativity I received was ten-fold worse then any thing I'd ever experienced as a "male" player. Some of the things said to me were so vicious and vile I won't repeat them here--heck, I wouldn't even say them in TNZ. They almost made me sick to my stomach even. In any case, I found the whole experience to be quite eye opening.
One upon a time I was naive enough to think nerds and geeks were more emotionally developed and self aware then the average person. Unfortunately I've discovered quite the opposite, with geeks/nerds (especially those that are hardcore gamers) seemingly having a rather high proportion of over the top misogynists. Heck, just look at how negatively some of them react to Felicia Day, it's insane (not people disliking her, but the reasons and how they dislike here). I'll tell you, it came as a rude awakening. Anyways, as much as I abhor IGN, here's the Girlfight podcast you should all give a go:- http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=367754729 Sadly it's now defunct since the host was made redundant, but it can still be quite an interesting viewpoint.
My only MMORPG experience was Everquest so that was quite a while ago but playing a female character is definitely enlightening. My male characters never got so many random gifts and people never wanted to know where I lived IRL, how old I was, etc...
Portraying a computer game woman with enhanced sexual qualities is sexist because it portrays the impression that she is only worth paying attention to, only worth something because of those qualities. No respect is given for other aspects of a woman's make up, such as her emotions. And I'd argue that a pixellated hunk is also sexist, but it's harder to show people a problem with it when the people affected by it like it. Simply put, the makers of the games seem to think that players want their male characters to be strong and muscly, and their female characters to appeal to the hormones of the male players. And when the female characters are designed with an eye to how likely male players want to fuck them, that is sexist. I mean, have a look at the game "Star Trek Elite Force 2". Look at the Idryll scientists Kleeya. Here is a grown woman whose primary attribute is her intelligence, and yet the makers of the game see fit to give her large breasts and an outfit - an OUTFIT - that barely qualifies as sexy lingerie! No woman would look at this outfit and think it is fit for general day to day wear, especially considering what all the other members of her species wear. And yet, the makers make her look like this because she is to have a relationship with the player's chatracter, and so she needs to present herself as a sexual trophy for him. Do they think that this is the only reason a man would ever be interested in a woman?
No, that is what YOU take away from it, that is not what the game itself does. Most of those things you mention above are irrelevant to most games. Now, I would like to see more games that give me more character depth and decisions in character portrayal, but that would tend to show up more in RPGs and adventure games. Not in action oriented games. The idea that just because a character is portrayed in a physically attractive manner doesn't make it automatically "sexist". That is the way some choose to percieve it. But game makers are not responsible for either your perceptions or your political agendas. More people like the cheesecake, too. The sales prove it. Yes, they do. And the sales show it. Scream "sexist" all you want. People will vote for their dollars. Such portrayals have been inherent in "heroic fiction" since the beginning. There is no sign they will change, and also, there is no reason to believe that people appreciating physical attractiveness don't notice anything else. That is up to the individual to realize. Or not. No amount of preaching or harping will change that. It, in itself, is not a bad thing. I can't comment on that, as I haven't played the game. But I don't automatically conclude that is sexist. Maybe the character is a maverick. Maybe she doesn't care for the conservative, stuff/PC nonsense from her people. Maybe she has an agenda to be aggressively sexy and STILL be a competent scientist. I do know that in the first Elite Force game, if you play the female version of the character, at one point you board a ship from the Mirror Mirror U, and to help you infiltrate, you can change into the uniform female crewmembers in that setting wore. If one was inclined, they could scream sexism about that, since the character is fit, curvy and makes nice eye candy in that sequence. But they would be offbase, and demontrate a total lack of appreciation for context as well as knowledge of canon. But again, eye of the beholder, and those with an agenda will grasp onto what they see will support it. Not the only reason I personally am interested in a woman, but you better believe the first thing I notice is a woman's physical appearance. That is not where I stop...but it is where I start. As we all do, if we are honest.
Nothing straw man about it. I didn't make up what people said here. It was their quotes. Those who do roll their eyes at it are just the sort I am talking about. They talk nuance, but their blanket attitude displays anything but. Faux sophistication is still faux. Weak PC nonsense is still just that. Roll away.
When you have a game that portrays a scientist like this, then yes, it is sexist. I know, and I fully agree with that. I think the character of Telsia in the same game is very attractive, and I wouldn't consider that character as sexist. When they have a character whose outfit of choice is skimpy lingerie, then yes, it is sexist. If Seven of Nine wore a bikini instead of what she wore, there would be cries that the character was sexist. There were people making that claim anyway, and she's positively overdressed compared to the character pictured above! But portraying a character as having unrealistically huge muscles isn't reducing that character to a sexualised object to the people playing that game. So then you are agreeing with me that it is sexist, and then saying that this is not a bad thing? You can see her pictured above. And there is absolutely no justification given in the game as to why she is dressed like that. None of the other members of her species wear such clothes. And honestly, if you saw a woman who wore clothes like that to important meetings, what would you think? Would you think that she didn't care to be conservative? That she wanted to be seen as being aggressively sexy and STILL be a competent woman? How highly would you think of a woman who decides that THIS is the best outfit she can wear in pretty much everything she does? Ah, but this is different, isn't it? That bit in the first game is recreating an established bit of canon, and it's still fairly well dressed compared to Kleeya. Justification for why this is done is given, and it's quite clear about it. On the other hand, no justification at all is given for why Kleeya dresses the way she does. She is needlessly portrayed as someone who wants to show off her sexuality. And I don't have a problem with that. I do the same thing. But when the character is designed so that the sexual aspects of her are so overwhelming, then I have a problem with it. Are the sexual aspects of Telsia overwhelming? No. In the first game, are the sexual aspects of the women from the mirror universe overwhelming? no. And finally, are Kleeya's sexual aspects overwhelming? Oh good lord yes.
Ultimately, playing video games are about power fantasy. Whether the protagonist is male, female, robot, or demon, it's all about power. And power comes in a lot of flavors. There's the power to create, the power to destroy, and the ability to manipulate. In our pop culture a good chunk of women's power is tied up in their sexuality. They can arouse, entice, manipulate, and control men in ways that no man would be able to match. In the sexual arena, women have all the power and men are absolutely helpless. There is a type of sexism there, certainly, and it doesn't reflect reality all that well, but it's a huge component of the power fantasy. Sexy female protagonists in video games generally have total control of their bodies and their sexuality. They flaunt it because it's a form of power and gamers like feeling powerful. It isn't about being sexy. A male gamer does feel sexy when his scantily clad female avatar crushes a man's skull with the stiletto heals of her thigh-high boots. He does feel powerful, however.
I can't say that the idea of walking down the street scantily clad and being stared at, wolf-whistled, harassed, and looked at as nothing more than an object is "empowering" in any way. Which is essentially what happens with women in video games, in how they're dressed and often how they're characterized. (And even when characterized properly, they're still often given grossly exaggerated proportions and unrealistic, undignified outfits--things unfit for warriors or other professionals.)
po·lit·i·cal adj \pə-ˈli-ti-kəl\ Definition of POLITICAL 1 a : of or relating to government, a government, or the conduct of government b : of, relating to, or concerned with the making as distinguished from the administration of governmental policy 2 : of, relating to, involving, or involved in politics and especially party politics 3 : organized in governmental terms <political units> 4 : involving or charged or concerned with acts against a government or a political system <political prisoners> So, political agendas? Being uncomfortable with misogynistic tropes in video games = VOTE OBAMA. I learn something new every day here.