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Captain Pike

You're looking at it too black and white. Kirk is the first olive branch from Starfleet. It wasn't just a simple escort, it was a political move as well. If you look at what they said in that line, it's clearly obvious: Kirk is going to reach across the aisle and help, but he is also a hardline like us and the Klingons won't dare to cross that line. We would then have the upper hand on that transaction.

It was a great political move had it not been a coup behind the scenes. It would have worked as great publicity. It's like they said, " Only Nixon Could go to China " -- Why not send the Secretary of State? It just happened that Nixon was a hard nose anti-Communist and it worked. He was the only one that could do it, Kirk was the only one that could do it here.
 
I like both Hunter AND Greenwood, and wouldn't like to have to choose between them, truth be told.

With both stories, we see Pike in different scenarios. In "The Cage" it's a Pike who is dealing with survivor's guilt after the deaths of not just several members of his crew but also his personal yeoman--all because he believes he did not assess a situation quickly enough, or act fast enough as a commander. We see someone who is questioning his place, and in the end actually AFFIRMS it. We also see a man who is endearingly COMPLETE CRAP with women, and does his best to resist the temptations of a fantasy crafted specifically for what he thinks he wants from a mate, and remains cool-headed and strong even with the fate of every crewmember aboard resting squarely on his and his XO's shoulders on the planet's surface. We see a captain who trusts his XO completely, backs up her command decisions, and who also has a warm, lively friendship with his CMO that hints as to a softer side than the reserved, private commander he presents to his crew.

Greenwood's Pike has a twinkle in his eye and we actually get to see him make command decisions on the fly in a slit second when the Enterprise comes out of warp. We see him get into that shuttle KNOWING he's most likely going to killed exactly like Robau, and doing it ANYWAY in the hopes that it will buy his crew and Vulcan a few more precious seconds. We see someone who for all his loyalty to Starfleet recognises that the culture of fear that had grown up after the destruction of the Kelvin has cost them the spirit of exploration, and put a military emphasis on what he believes to primarily be an exploratory force for good in the known universe. We see someone who challenges the people under him to be the best officers they can be, and that includes a 20-something Jim Kirk who unlike his Prime universe counterpart actually gets through the academy in 3 years instead of four, and has the potential to be the kind of captain who brings that desire for knowledge and spirit of exploration BACK to Starfleet.

In both cases Christopher Pike is shown to be the kind of captain who inspires loyalty in his crew, and in both cases, i would have liked to have seen more stories with him in the centre seat.

Which is, I suspect, why I write fanfic, and fangirl DC Fontana so damned hard for VULCAN'S GLORY, and similarly Dan Abnett for EARLY VOYAGES. it's why i also crave more Pike-era stories that aren't just about revisiting the Rigel VII, Talos IV, and Pike's ultimate fate over and over again, as if those are the only stories we can tell and retell about the character.
 
Greenwood would've been a fine April. But he just didn't fit my notions of Pike. And if he'd been April... they wouldn't have had to put him in the stupid wheelchair at the end. :techman:
 
Wasn't Pike (and Kirk for that matter) just April with a new name in TOS? I'm not sure the Cage gives us a complete picture of Pike, who was at a pretty low point when that story begins but shifts into hero mode as it develops.
 
Its a hard call because lets be honest none of " pikes " have been fully developed and utilized, I mean factoring in all 3 we have still only gotten a....wait for it....






Wait for it.....







Pike's Peek!


* runs from his own bad joke and pikefan's thrown slippers *
 
Tara said:
I like both Hunter AND Greenwood, and wouldn't like to have to choose between them, truth be told.

With both stories, we see Pike in different scenarios. In "The Cage" it's a Pike who is dealing with survivor's guilt after the deaths of not just several members of his crew but also his personal yeoman--all because he believes he did not assess a situation quickly enough, or act fast enough as a commander. We see someone who is questioning his place, and in the end actually AFFIRMS it. We also see a man who is endearingly COMPLETE CRAP with women, and does his best to resist the temptations of a fantasy crafted specifically for what he thinks he wants from a mate, and remains cool-headed and strong even with the fate of every crewmember aboard resting squarely on his and his XO's shoulders on the planet's surface. We see a captain who trusts his XO completely, backs up her command decisions, and who also has a warm, lively friendship with his CMO that hints as to a softer side than the reserved, private commander he presents to his crew.

Greenwood's Pike has a twinkle in his eye and we actually get to see him make command decisions on the fly in a slit second when the Enterprise comes out of warp. We see him get into that shuttle KNOWING he's most likely going to killed exactly like Robau, and doing it ANYWAY in the hopes that it will buy his crew and Vulcan a few more precious seconds. We see someone who for all his loyalty to Starfleet recognises that the culture of fear that had grown up after the destruction of the Kelvin has cost them the spirit of exploration, and put a military emphasis on what he believes to primarily be an exploratory force for good in the known universe. We see someone who challenges the people under him to be the best officers they can be, and that includes a 20-something Jim Kirk who unlike his Prime universe counterpart actually gets through the academy in 3 years instead of four, and has the potential to be the kind of captain who brings that desire for knowledge and spirit of exploration BACK to Starfleet.

In both cases Christopher Pike is shown to be the kind of captain who inspires loyalty in his crew, and in both cases, i would have liked to have seen more stories with him in the centre seat.

Which is, I suspect, why I write fanfic, and fangirl DC Fontana so damned hard for VULCAN'S GLORY, and similarly Dan Abnett for EARLY VOYAGES. it's why i also crave more Pike-era stories that aren't just about revisiting the Rigel VII, Talos IV, and Pike's ultimate fate over and over again, as if those are the only stories we can tell and retell about the character.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this info!
 
the skullcowboy said:
Its a hard call because lets be honest none of " pikes " have been fully developed and utilized, I mean factoring in all 3 we have still only gotten a....wait for it....






Wait for it.....







Pike's Peek!


* runs from his own bad joke and pikefan's thrown slippers *
Click to expand...

Oh, you'll come back Cowboy. *holds both slippers and my boots menacingly*
 
I've been lurking and reading for a while...so...
BillJ said:
But most of that history wasn't exactly positive from a Klingon point of view.
Click to expand...
:devil: I guess not...he had kicked them in the ass so much that their backbone was shoved up over the top of their heads.
Merky said:
They weren't looking at it from that angle, they were looking at it from how Spock explained it, " Only Nixon can go to China "
Click to expand...
This "Vulcan proverb" never quite rang true with me. By ST-VI, Watergate had been over for over 300 years. I believe that Vulcans would view Nixon as one of the more logical of the Cold War U.S. presidents, I don't think that Nixon would have become a Vulcan proverb.:vulcan: Comparing Nixon and Kirk was a weak point in the early part of the movie. Nixon and Kirk were not anything alike in any way what so ever. I guess that's why Kirk gives Spock that odd look.

Seriously, could the comparison have been made had Number One have said to Pike: "Only Nixon could go to China." It might have been a better connection since both Nixon and Pike (Hunter) were the introverted, brooding types.

Pike (Hunter) could have pulled off the fight scenes probably better than Kirk (Shatner) since he had all of the westerns and war movies in his resume. His fight with the Kaylar was scrappy, quick, and dirty; whereas, Kirk's fight with the Gorn was more "cerebral" in approach. It seems that the Arena episode wouldn't have been a 50 minute show with Pike (Hunter); however, he might have had to curse the Metron for 30 minutes to make it a show.
 
I'm a third of the way through Burning Dreams, and I'm loving it. It's amazing how little we actually about Pike from TV, film and even all his prior novel and comic book adventures.
 
...Which made Burning Dreams something of a disappointment for me, as so much of it was actually based on what we did know of Pike already, from "The Cage". IMHO, The Children of Kings was the more enjoyable recent addition to Pike lore, as it showed the character when he was not brooding, or thinking of horses or slave girls or fables he once heard in childhood. Although I'm still partial to Where Sea Meets Sky for all its boyish-romantic adventure flamboyance.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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