Stan Lee's Gay Superhero

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Temis the Vorta, Nov 13, 2008.

  1. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Location:
    the real world
    ^^^Well, then, the time spent about gay lovers and family relationships and public perceptions will just be more stuff about the superhero's relationships, no?

    Except that most replies show that people do indeed care if the superhero is gay, contra the OP.
     
  2. perrym

    perrym Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Hi there,
    I am a longtime Star Trek fan--first show I ever remember seeing (at age 2), my earliest memory in fact... Then the next generation (that two-parter where Tasha Yar came back and Whoopie was the only one who knew they were temporally were out of place was my all-time favorite), and Lt. Fox--even though he became a Borg victim, was my favorite unassumed gay character. Maybe he can come back or we can see him in the economy.

    At any rate, I've seen lots of you fellow fans write and speculate about my novel HERO and its subsequent adaptation as a series at Showtime. I'm happy to asnwer any questions you may have. First thing I'd like to clear up is that it's the story of a young hero struggling with so many things who just happens to be gay. It's not a gimmick about a guy superhero, as in a gimmick. Most reviews on Amazon and most of fan mail appreciates this very approach I took in writing the material.

    Moreover, I like to quote one of my all time favorite sci-fi writers, Octavia Butler (I hooked up with my literary agent, the magnificent Merrilee Heifetz, who also reps Neil Gaiman and Laurel K. Hamilton), and Octavia taught me that the genre we write is actually called the "literature of the imagination." I like that. May she rest in inspirational peace.

    And by the way, if you've read the book, I sure could use your advice when it comes to casting. Please let me know what you think!

    And keep aiming high. There is a HERO in each and every one of you.

    Thanks for listening. It's an honor to be part of this group!

    All the best,

    Perry
     
  3. Good Will Riker

    Good Will Riker Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2001
    Location:
    Southern California, USA
    We are already getting a gay superhero:

    Seth Rogen as the Green Hornet!
     
  4. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    I'd agree if it weren't Stan Lee. Lee always delved more into the person than the hero.
     
  5. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Location:
    the real world
    Perry Moore's Hero is, as he says, a novel in which the teen hero being gay is not a gimmick. It is not widely known here, probably because it was marketed as a young adult novel. This catchall category is something of a ghetto, which hides some really good books, as well as wish fullfilment stories. The novel is not a tie in, nor a franchise (as yet, anyhow.) That alone would make me recommend it. I don't get Showtime but I will probably be eager to Netflix the show sign unseen---but novel read. To put it one way, there is romance but no sexuality to speak of.

    Sliding off topic, another young adult superhero novel (sort of) are Catherine Jinks Evil Genius and Genius Wars. The first has the brainiac zone of a supervillain being enrolled at the supervillains' university of evil.
     
  6. grabmygoblin

    grabmygoblin Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    the story itself seems interesting and I may add the novel to my reading list. during Marvel's recent "Civil War" arc I was struck by the parallels between unmasking and coming out as gay. while it can be a great relief and make life easier, it also has the exact opposite effect, adding worry for yourself and your family to your life.

    but... um... Stan Lee can't really write well... he's imaginative, and I don't mean to belittle the impact he's had on sci-fi/fantasy, especially within the realm of comics, but his dialogue is terrible, and I doubt he can handle the subtly this story sounds like it would need.
     
  7. cylkoth

    cylkoth Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2003
    ^^Why should gay characters get any better dialogue than the straight ones? :D

    Hey, equal treatment, regardless...;)
     
  8. perrym

    perrym Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Hi there,

    I'm Perry. I just joined the site because I'm a longtime Star Trek fan. In fact, my earliest memory is watching an episode with my father when I was two years old. I am writing in this thread because I am the author of HERO, and the writer and producer of the Showtime series along with my partner Hunter Hill and the wonderful Stan Lee.

    For those of you who want to know more about who the character in HERO is, it's pretty simple. Read the book. I used to tell folks the same thing about the Chronicles of Narnia movies I helped put together as the films' exec producer. Since we worked hard to make faithful adaptations (i.e. not modernizing the original stories), we always told interested parties to look to the book for answers before the movie came out. And the answers were usually there.

    Now Star Trek was another world, like Narnia, that inspired my imagination, and it allowed me to dream about a world where Earth let go of the prejudices I had grown up with: Uhura, Chekov, and a Vulcan all working together with the regular white casts, discovering new races and planets. Wow, the shows got my mind going!

    So I set out to write a story not so much about the world's first gay superhero, but about a multi-dimensional character, an aspiring young hero who wants to make his mark in the world, with so many challenges to face--and, yes, he happens to like men instead of women. If you read the book, it is not the one-note gay superhero joke that I often find on certain websites that picked up the Showtime/Stan Lee announcement about the show. Rather, the novel won the American Librarian Association Notable Book of the Year, in addition to the LAMBDA award for best gay fiction for young adults. The book and show's cast -- much like Star Treks' -- is varied. I can only hope to stretch my imagination as far as Gene Rodenberry inspired me to. And beyond.

    Thanks for listening. Hope you get a chance to check out HERO. Feel free to ask me anything you'd like to know about it.

    All the best,

    Perry Moore,
    author of HERO
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  9. perrym

    perrym Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Hi there, it's me again, Perry. I'm not sure how these chats work on these threads. There is a short one above my original post that doesn't seem to acknowledge what I wrote. How did my message get placed in the middle of the discussion? As a neophyte at this site, I could use a little guidance, because I believe my point is an important one, and I can clear up most of the questions or opinions posted here.
    Thanks to anyone who can lend a helping hand.
    Perry Moore,
    author of HERO
     
  10. OmahaStar

    OmahaStar Disrespectful of his betters Admiral

    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Location:
    OmahaStar
    Posts are displayed by the time they were submitted. Please be careful not to post more than two entries in a row, as the mods are forced to give "warnings" for it. Don't think you're being singled out. There are posters who have forced that into being a rule.

    I look forward to this series. I have had the book for ages, but haven't read it yet. That's what happens when you have a thousand plus books in your reading queue.
     
  11. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Location:
    the real world
    As to casting, I pictured the father as a little older than the usual early forties, closer to fifty, and someone who could do surly. Val Kilmer? But I understand he can be a real pill to work with. Maybe a Jeffrey Dean Morgan or a Richard Burgi?

    As to the young people, closer to eighteen for our hero and his best friend the better. But I think you could go to mid twenties for the other leading man.
     
  12. Rÿcher

    Rÿcher Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Location:
    That wretched hive of scum and villany
    Am I the only one looking at this from a sexual standpoint?

    Imagine being gay having a gay superhero lover... Imagine the sex! :eek:

    I'm faint just thinking about it!
     
  13. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    I refer you to Larry Niven's article at http://www.rawbw.com/~svw/superman.html
     
  14. grabmygoblin

    grabmygoblin Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Location:
    Albany, NY
  15. perrym

    perrym Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Thanks to stj's reply about CASTING IDEAS FOR HERO. Everyone on this site is so full of knowledge. I loved his idea of Val Kilmer as Hal Creed, Thom's father, the disgraced superhero former known as Major Might who toils in a factory just struggling to do right as a single dad. Both he and Thom are two souls longing to find their places in the universe, and feel they don't belong for very different reasons.

    There are so many other characters: Thom, Goran, Golden Boy, Typhoid Larry, Ruth, Justice, Thom's mysterious mother (The Invisible Woman), and of course, Hal Creed, Thom's father.

    Since I'm starting to keep a casting file for the show, I thought I'd invite every one here to contribute. I'm sure there was plenty of cast discussion and speculation when news of the new Star Trek movie came out, and I value sci-fi fans' opinions in a major way. So please feel free to contribute all ideas, and I'll start writing!

    When I wrote the movie LAKE CITY starring Sissy Spacek, I did do with a picture of the actress taped to the wall, and it helped: I believe I wrote it in her voice because of the picture. I always envisioned her in the part, she was the first actress we went to, and she did it. I hope someone here will be responsible for the pictures I tape to the wall when I write the script for HERO, as well.

    Thank you for helping me!

    Perry
     
  16. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Location:
    the real world
    Patricia Clarkson as Ruth Justice?
     
  17. ria 75

    ria 75 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Location:
    My garden, on the other side of the frog pond
    Absolutely. I have voiced that opinion here before.

    And isn't that the case with Captain Jack Harkness from 'Torchwood'? He's either gay or bi or just very open about those things and nobody in his entourage seems to care much. (My opinion from season 1 only - I missed the 2nd. :()

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    Hello, perrym. Welcome to the board. It is an honour to have you among us and to have a chance to have a dialogue with an aothor rather than the usual third-person speculation.
    Everybody always has an opinion, though. (For instance, I know virtually nothing of your book but I am posting.)
    And people often read the original post, or maybe also a few posts after that, then react. Their posts appear at the end of the thread after some they haven't read (or not read yet).
    So don't feel ignored. Just give it a little time. We may simply not have bothered to read your posts (besides, long posts or long paragraphs tend to make some of us skip a post) because we didn't recognize your username as a familar person's who we like to read.
    It's a huge, very active board that moves on fast and a lot of things can go unnoticed.

    I encourage you to post more so you can get to the point where you can exchange Private Messages (50 posts and 2 weeks or something).
    For any TrekBBS newcomer, I have this tip: you have a 10-minute window of discreet edit (before the hour of edit appears) and you don't have to give a reason (even after the 10 minutes) unless it feels necessary.

    Hey, you could put that in your signature. A lot of people do it. ;)

    I don't have much to contribute on topic, but you're in the right place: as you know, there is a higher proportion of gays among Star Trek and superhero fantasy fans than in the general population, and this is reflected on the board.

    And if you want more casting suggestions, you may want to start a thread about it with a more specific title, here or in the TV and media forum. Good luck. :)
     
  18. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Location:
    the real world
    How did I change her last name?

    Most likely there will not be too many replies re casting because very few here have read the book.

    Further thoughts on casting follow.

    Re Ruth---Bonnie Bartlett or Olympia Dukakis come to mind for an age close to the physical description in the book. For a beefier Ruth, Kathy Bates or Conchata Ferrell (who does more than comedy!) come to mind.

    Miss Scarlett---Ellen Page of course.

    Uberman---Brad Pitt of course! And Warrior Woman---Angelina Jolie, ushering in a new iconography of the Domintatrix! Right Wing (the villain being Right Wing is such a charming notion I can only think of him by that name)---uh, Gerard Butler?

    Typhoid Larry---Lukas Haas

    But for the hero, the other male lead and Golden Boy, I'm stumped.
     
  19. perrym

    perrym Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Wow, I had no idea there were proportionally more gay fans on this site than on others. I wonder why. I find that very interesting.

    For those of you who haven't read HERO, I'll give you a very brief rundown of character descriptions for casting ideas. So far, you're hitting the nail on the head!

    1. Thom -- the protagonist -- a young man, a high school basketball star with the weight of the world on his shoulders. He has two secrets to hide from his father: 1. he's developing superpowers, and therefore is invited to tryout for the very team (The League, that kicked his father, a formerly glorious hero, of the their ranks years ago, and 2. he's discovering his sexual feelings may be for men, and not for women.

    2. Hal Creed -- Thom's father. A weathered, fallen from grace superhero, who now toils as a menial factory worker. Considered the world's greatest pariah because of an event where the collateral damage killed thousands of innocent men and women. He wants to do right by his son. Tough on the outside. There is a warmth on the inside.

    Thom's Probationary Team:
    Scarlett--the hottest young woman on the team...grew up on a trailer. Can control fire, but not her temper. Gained her powers from growing up next to a nuclear power plant, which is literally rotting her insides, and hides from the team that she requires chemo treatments to deal with it.
    RUTH-a tough as nails old woman -- remember Ruth Gordon, or Gena Rowlands in Gloria? Can see glimpses of the future. Becomes Thom's most unlikely ally. Has the sharpest tongue of the group.
    Typhoid Larry -- a real fan-favorite. Wants so much to be the bad-ass-get-the-girl-hero, but his powers --he makes anyone sick with an array of illnesses with the smallest touch -- keep people away from him.
    And Golden Boy -- super-speedster sidekick to the Flash-like "Silver Bullet" on the League. Demoted to lead this bunch of neophytes and he takes it all out on Thom. Good looking, an ethnic question mark. We find out he grew up in an orphanage and no one would take him, because the blacks thought he was Puerto Rican, the Puerto Ricans thought he was Middle Eastern, and so on and so forth. Has a major chip on his shoulder, always has to be the best.

    The League: Uberman--perfectly handsome heavy hitter, and the secret object of Thom's desire, Warrior Woman, and Justice, the all-knowing leader of the League, whom Thom discovers used to be Thom's father's sidekicks years ago.

    C-list Villains: Transvision Vamp, Sig-Sig Sputnik, Snaggletooth (Wolverine if he weren't immune due to his popularity, and equally one-note), and the Ssnake.

    Dark Hero -- a mysterious vigilante who always seems to follow Thom. At certain points throughout the novel you wonder if it's Thom's father, dressed up to check up on his son. Maybe his long lost mother, returned, to make sure her son is safe, as he gets in over his head. Or is it...

    Goran -- Thom's biggest adversary on the basketball court. Someone he can't get out of his mind.

    Thom's mother, Lila Creed -- we learn, not only left the Creed family years ago -- she disappeared -- she was the League's Invisible Woman.

    So that about does it.

    Hope you check out the book. I tried to run away from the cliche. Especially by presenting an enthralling story about a hero's coming of age story, and his being gay is just a part of it, not the whole of it, not his entire defining trait. I look at movies like Brokeback Mountain and Milk, and I don't criticize movies I had no part in making--at the same time, I wanted to do something totally innovative -- create a story about a character who happens to be gay who is not there for comic relief, who is not there to get beaten up, but who is there to be the star of his own story, and he happens to be gay, and he earns his way to becoming a HERO. Unlike the two popular gay-character movies I mentioned, HERO does not end in the death and tragedy of the main character.

    Believe it or not, for now, that's an awfully subversive premise. I'd like to think Gene Rodenberry would be proud of me. Because he did something so similar so long ago. And now multicultural casts are a given to young people.

    But stories that feature characters who happen to be gay whose stories don't end in abject tragedy and death -- well, that's pretty darn subversive right now. And I'm looking forward to a day when it isn't. Because the story will still stand on its own two feet as a great coming of age superhero story.

    And with your help, we'll put together the best cast on TV!

    Thank you for helping me! I can't think of a better group to ask! (Please let me know how to get more folks on the site in on the discussion, if possible-you all are so much better than so many other forums I've tried to join!)

    All the best,
    Perry Moore,
    Author of HERO