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What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

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DSC - Underrated
SNW - Overrated
PIC - Had a huge advantage, standing on the shoulders of TNG and the rest of Legacy Trek.

SFA - Probably won't be 90210. Have the people who call it that even actually seen 90210? I have, once. Not by choice. I doubt SFA will be anything like that.

S31 - Sure, it's only a TV Movie now, but the fact that it exists at all is good enough for me.
 
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It also permanently ruined the borg forever. Far worse than anything tng or voy ever did or could

Don't agree at all. Listen, the Borg were just never going to be as scary after "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II," because a lot of what made them scary in "Q Who?" and "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I" was how unknown they were and how they seemed to lack emotionally relatable motivations. They were, from a storytelling analysis point of view, monsters rather than characters. And a threat you don't fully understand is always scarier than one you do. That's often the key to making things scary in visual art -- keeping them mysterious and making their motivations unrelatable

"BoBW Part II" and then "I, Borg" both undermined the feeling of mystery with the Borg -- we started to understand how they operated, what their vulnerabilities were. Then Star Trek: First Contact introduced the Borg Queen, and suddenly the Borg were no longer monsters but instead characters with a comprehensible leadership structure whose leader acted upon emotionally relatable motivations. And also, First Contact and, subsequently, VOY "Unity" and "Scorpion, Parts I & II" further undermined the feeling of mystery by establishing details about how the assimilation process worked (nanoprobes) and how Borg technology could be modified by Our Heroes. And then of course suddenly we have a Borg main character and we learn all sorts of things about the Borg, and then the Queen has this emotionally abusive mother/daughter relationship with her, and then there's this Unimatrix Zero resistance group so suddenly the Borg have dissidents...

The bottom line is that the very act of bringing the Borg back after "BoBW" meant they were never going to be as scary. Because stories about monsters are dramatically unsustainable -- after a while, the repetition of how the monster operates inherently undermines the feeling of mystery. (Think of how every sequel to Alien after Aliens is just diminishing returns.) Plus, the lack of personality forces the writers to make the stories about how the characters react to the monsters rather than about the monsters themselves -- the equivalent of how most natural disaster movies aren't really about the disasters but about how the characters cope with the disasters. (And the few that do focus on natural disasters just end up feeling numb and boring, like the 2012 film.) And even then, focusing on how the characters respond to the threat rather than on the threat itself starts to get boring, because it's gonna start hitting the same kinds of emotional beats over and over again.

So to avoid all that, the writers introduce the Queen and transform the Borg from monsters into characters with subjectivity. But then that also undermines the feeling of scariness, because suddenly there's this antagonist character we can comprehend and relate to and analyze, and we realize that ultimately she too is a subjective being who is limited by her wants and needs just as we are. It's dramatically more sustainable, but it still undermines the feeling of dread.

The bottom line is, the Borg will never, ever be as scary as they were in "Q Who?" and "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I." The very act of bringing them back will always undermine that. So we -- both creators and audiences -- should just let go of that desire. It can never be fulfilled.

Instead, we -- both writers and audiences -- should embrace the idea of using the Borg as characters, as a culture with its own idosyncrisies and subjectivities, or as rather a family of interrelated but sometimes opposing cultures now. Stop trying to make them scary monsters and start exploring them as a distinct culture like the Cardassians or the Klingons or the Romulans.

I honestly think the Jurati Borg are the most interesting thing Star Trek has done with the Borg since Seven of Nine was introduced on VOY. We finally have this alien culture with some fundamentally alien values but who we can't just write off as bad guys because they honestly want to be our friends. But their very desire to be friends and neighbors with us forces us to re-examine our fundamental values and fundamental assumptions about what life is supposed to look like. I think that's a lot more interesting and exciting a vehicle for storytelling than just trying to re-create "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I."

No. It gives future writers, if they want to bring back the Borg like they were in "Q, Who" or "Best of both Worlds", a way to do this. Without the Queen or the Zombie stuff.

Possibly! I mean, Jurati is clearly a kind of leader, but the Jurati Borg probably have a fundamentally different structure than the traditional Collective. I like to imagine that they're less a hive than a gestalt. And they could probably be kind of creepy even if they're not hostile!
 
I honestly think the Jurati Borg are the most interesting thing Star Trek has done with the Borg since Seven of Nine was introduced on VOY. We finally have this alien culture with some fundamentally alien values but who we can't just write off as bad guys because they honestly want to be our friends. But their very desire to be friends and neighbors with us forces us to re-examine our fundamental values and fundamental assumptions about what life is supposed to look like. I think that's a lot more interesting and exciting a vehicle for storytelling than just trying to re-create "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I."
I agree. The storytelling possibilities are endless.
 
Now they can be nosy, over-sharers, no sense of boundaries or privacy, overly organized, know-it-alls who think they can do it better than you because they're coordinated.

They could also be intelligence assets/ambassadors/first contact specialists because they know of species and people that Starfleet has yet to meet.
 
The bottom line is, the Borg will never, ever be as scary as they were in "Q Who?" and "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I." The very act of bringing them back will always undermine that. So we -- both creators and audiences -- should just let go of that desire. It can never be fulfilled.
Indeed. Borg are best left behind.
 
I don't know...while I'm not a fan of the Borg Queen as a concept, the Borg were admittedly pretty scary in FC. I just finished watching that film, and it had been a while, and I forgot how intimidating and relentless they are made to seem in that movie. I'd say that FC should have been the final appearance...maybe with the reprisal for S3 of Picard after a long absence...

But of course, if they hadn't shown up in VOY, we never would have gotten 7 of 9. Not sure if that's a good trade or not....(?)
 
Back on Topic.

DSC - Underrated
SNW - Overrated
PIC - Had a huge advantage, standing on the shoulders of TNG and the rest of Legacy Trek.

SFA - Probably won't be 90210. Have the people who call it that even actually seen 90210? I have, once. Not by choice. I doubt SFA will be anything like that.

S31 - Sure, it's only a TV Movie now, but the fact that it exists at all is good enough for me.

DSC and SNW are both really interesting...in that when they are good, they are very very good. But when they struggle...it's really kind of awful. I'm ok with that, because when the do struggle, it's at least because they are TRYING.

I'd normally say PIC is the most consistent of the new shows...but I'd have to ignore the fact that pretty much all of S2 is a lost cause for me. PIC S1 was really quite brilliant, and it failed to stick the landing (that's really its only sin). PIC S3 was extremely consistent in terms of entertainment value.

SFA should be really quite interesting. It will hopefully (by format) be sufficiently different where that alone will carry some massive interest. The key thing is that they need to create interesting, realistic, relatable characters. If they do a bunch of over-blown archetypes and tropes, it will kill the whole thing. I also hope they are setting it in 23rd-25th century...(says the guy who always asserts that the timeframe doesn't matter LOL)

S31 is probably rightfully scoped as a "special event movie." I'm guessing the cost of Michelle Yeoh alone would prohibit anything more.
 
Back on Topic.

DSC - Underrated
SNW - Overrated
PIC - Had a huge advantage, standing on the shoulders of TNG and the rest of Legacy Trek.

SFA - Probably won't be 90210. Have the people who call it that even actually seen 90210? I have, once. Not by choice. I doubt SFA will be anything like that.

S31 - Sure, it's only a TV Movie now, but the fact that it exists at all is good enough for me.
I was like 8-9 years old and it was like Whoa this Star Trek is the best ever! It will always be my favorite but then you have people 20 years younger than me and they're Whoa this TNG is the best ever.
I think it's a good thing that something is created which every generation can enjoy. I enjoyed my Grandson telling me why Voyager is so much better than that old trek.
No need to get angry with him, just write him out of the Will, that'll teach him!
To Quote Captain Mal, "Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place."
 
I don't know, I think SNW had a few subpar episodes, but so far no absolute stinkers. I think it's yet avoided the abysmal lows that every other live-action Trek show has reached. And I'm not even a fan of SNW.
 
I don't know, I think SNW had a few subpar episodes, but so far no absolute stinkers. I think it's yet avoided the abysmal lows that every other live-action Trek show has reached. And I'm not even a fan of SNW.


It didn't have to, for me. It feels like a rehash of TOS to me. That, along with the very dull Christopher Pike, are reasons why I'm not a fan. However . . . give it time. I'm certain that SNW will end up producing the occasional bad episode.
 
I always thought some of the Voyager episodes did far more damage to the Borg than anything.

For example, giving the Borg something they couldn’t adapt against like Species 8472 is an interesting story idea, but then it’s totally undercut by positing that the billions of minds in the collective couldn’t come up with the same solution that The Doctor could made no sense.

The Jurati Borg are an interesting idea for different story concepts, especially how they exist within a Federation that prides itself on being tolerant and enlightened, but has a bias against genetic argumentation and synthetic life forms.

What if Federation citizens en masse start voluntarily joining her collective? What if there are people who object to a voluntary Borg community because they feel it undermines their culture or their identity?
 
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