How formidable of a foe would Lore have been to the Federation if…

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by FederationHistorian, Jan 24, 2023.

  1. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2020
    Location:
    Greener pastures, working on something great.
    he was backed by both the Crystalline Entity and the Borg drones from “Descent” (including their ship) at the same time?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023
    Qonundrum likes this.
  2. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    The Crystalline Entity wouldn't make a big difference, considering how easy it was for Marr to kill it in "Silicon Avatar".
     
  3. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    And one rogue Borg ship doesn't pose much of a threat either IMHO. However, Lore's ultimate plan in Decent does have some scary overarching implications.

    If Lore had managed to keep Data in check, and further experiment on those Ex-Borg drones, with Data's help, the guy who'd already hacked a cube, the likelihood of them seizing control over the entire collective, essentially deposing the queen, becomes a rather credible threat to pretty much all sapient organic life, not just the Federation. It might just be the nastiest perfect storm of doom that could ever happen

    Basically, the only thing standing in Lore's way was Data, another equal like him. In order for it to work, he either needed Data with him, or needed him gone entirely. Lore + Data + Borg Collective seizure = apocalypse.
     
  4. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    ^ Still makes me wonder why the Borg (by mouth of Locutus) referred to Data as a 'primitive artificial organism that would be obsolete in the new order' . Up until that point, the Borg had shown many nasty qualities, but lying wasn't one of them, so I'm bound to assume they really thought so at that point. What made their drones superior (or closer to perfection) in their eyes?
     
    Qonundrum likes this.
  5. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    I actually think they just underestimated him. It's certainly possible. They've misjudged entities before, & Data certainly shows some aptitude for undermining them in that very episode. I think that was the point of how it played out. They never considered him a threat, & it was mainly him that got the upper hand on them.

    Given time, I can imagine a more malicious team up of Lore & Data, working together with an already compromised Borg cube to conduct experiments on, being a definite potential danger to their collective.
     
    FederationHistorian likes this.
  6. Finn

    Finn Bad Batch of TrekBBS Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Yeah. it wouldn't make a difference.
     
  7. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Location:
    Farscape One
    For all we know, Data and Lore teaming up and taking control of the Collective was exactly what happened in the Borg controlled universe where ultra-bearded Riker was from in "Parallels".
     
    FederationHistorian likes this.
  8. Geargoose

    Geargoose Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2023
    Location:
    USS Excelsior, NCC-2000
    Borg thought that data was something C3PO-like
     
  9. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    They had assimilated Picard, so they would have known exactly what Data was capable of - as much as Picard himself knew, that is.
     
  10. Geargoose

    Geargoose Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2023
    Location:
    USS Excelsior, NCC-2000
    May be the Borg, good at bio-tech, just didn't know how to assimilate and use him, fully mechanical. Only one Data, without ability to be replicated, is almost useless. A positronic brain may be too complicated even for the Borg, because they never assimilated beings able to create it.
     
    FederationHistorian likes this.
  11. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    All calling something obsolete means is that there is no plan to make use of it. They have a scheme, & an artificial organism is not part of it. They're whole process revolves around slavery of biologicals with tech. Since Data is not prime for such an interplay, he is merely obsolete to them

    That said, I have no doubt some of his tech could serve to be applied to Borg physiology. He's got mechanical aspects that aren't dissimilar to their own. It's merely that they rely on using beings with organic brain structures as their prime function & Data doesn't have that, so... obsolete
     
  12. somebuddyX

    somebuddyX Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2014
    Lore should have rounded up all the androids from TOS and then gone looking for another Iconian gateway. Just stroll onto starships en masse, snap everyone's necks and then set the ship to suicide run some homeworlds.
     
  13. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Lore was like Khan. Awesome at first sight, but what next? What if Khan had destroyed the Enterprise, killed Kirk, and was in one stolen spaceship?
     
  14. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    It would probably gobble up all the Borg organic bits just for a snack. Then a ship with shield technology would blast it to cufflink size bits. And Lore would get captured and
    locked up with AGIMUS and Peanut Hamper.
     
  15. Geargoose

    Geargoose Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2023
    Location:
    USS Excelsior, NCC-2000
    Only his head maybe? :lol:
     
  16. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    Now i can't stop imagining Lore as a nutrition expert trying to get the CE to not eat the Borg :guffaw:
     
  17. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    But it doesn't work, because the thing thinks with its stomach. When it tried to talk to the Enterprise in "Silicon Avatar", it was probably just saying "drop those shields so I can eat you already!"
     
    Qonundrum likes this.
  18. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Location:
    Farscape One
    Lore: Crysty! It's been too long. How are you doing, old pal? Listen, these Borg are not really good for your digestion. Too many artificial additives. You want to go for free range humans. (sing-songy) I can point you in the right direction...
     
  19. Leviathan

    Leviathan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Not much.

    One good paradoxical phrase and he'd be a smoking ruin alongside Landru.
     
  20. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    Only because Picard's crew figured out by chance that tapping it like a crystal goblet would get it to respond with perfect clarity instantly, noting that Beverly and Data and WonderWes all observed Lore talking to it in pure English as the universal translator has nothing on the thing...

    It's not inconceivable that other species, especially those lacking starships or sonic weapons powerful enough to have such an impact. Also, get a glass jar big enough, some water, whatever makes up the CE, put them all together - like this: https://www.thoughtco.com/how-to-make-crystals-607669 - and voila: A shiny new army now exists! :D


    Lore telling Fido what to go do next:



    Bonus - more lore on Lore:

    (Oh goody, there's "tangent" as well as the old classic of "bogey" on display too... can't he wait a few minutes before doing his holodeck visit to play golf? )
     
    Unimatrix Q likes this.