Episodes where the entire plot fundamentally doesn't work

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by TommyR01D, May 9, 2022.

  1. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Verona, New Jersey, USA
    There is absolutely nothing at the end of the episode about the Enterprise being thrown a few days forward in time. Read the transcript if you don't believe me. So you're either misremembering or you're adding in your own headcanon.

    My point was that after they made the initial mistake of saying that they were out for only 30 seconds, they then made the exact same mistake at the end of the episode and said that they were only unconscious for 30 seconds when they still had more than a day unaccounted for. Here are the two relevant passages from the episode:
    The distance quoted is exactly the same. So both times they were almost a day's travel away after only 30 seconds. (And, since this is their second time around doing this, the crew has lost at least two days' worth of time now.) Yet somehow they're not suspicious about it this time around. And again, they'd discover that the ship's clocks were off as soon as they had contact with anyone else in Starfleet, which starts the entire cycle over again. The ending just doesn't work.
    Thank you! I'm glad someone gets what I'm saying.
     
    Richard S. Ta, Tiberius and Jedman67 like this.
  2. Takeru

    Takeru Space Police Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Germany, EU, Earth
    The clock being off didn't bother the crew the first time around, Data called it a time distortion and Picard accepted that without further questions which makes sense considering wormholes link two places in spacetime, it was all the other stuff that made them suspicious and that stuff was fixed when they did the second attempt.
     
    Richard S. Ta, drt and Farscape One like this.
  3. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    Given that Picard and Data knew exactly what the "clues" were, they and the rest of the crew would have taken the necessary steps to cover them up.
     
    Richard S. Ta likes this.
  4. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    The clues they stumbled over and were aware of. It doesn't preclude the possibility they would find different clues the second time after that first set was covered up.
     
  5. Smiley

    Smiley Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Re: "Tomorrow is Yesterday"

    There was a Department of Temporal Investigations novel that addressed the ending of the episode. It might have something to do with entropy, inertia, and/or quantum entanglement. It definitely made sense when I read it, and I recommend the series for those who like time travel in their Trek.
     
  6. Vale

    Vale Guest

    I'm not misremembering anything, and I've been quoting from the transcript. I know it's not actually in the episode, but it's a perfectly reasonable explanation that could have been suggested given that the entire cover story is a freak encounter with an unstable wormhole. I don't understand why you don't think it's remotely plausible given both everything we know about wormholes in Star Trek and everything else they talk about in the episode. Or do you literally need to be spoonfed everything or else you consider it a plot hole?

    But... Picard literally says "we know what to look for this time so we'll do better next time and remove all the clues". So why do you have such difficulty believing that this time that's what happened?
     
    Richard S. Ta and Paul Weaver like this.
  7. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Verona, New Jersey, USA
    So in other words, it's just your headcanon.
     
    Richard S. Ta likes this.
  8. Gepard

    Gepard Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    There's the seed of a pretty funny story in that, told from the perspective of the Paxans, about this annoying ship that keeps showing up over and over and over and over...
     
    Jedman67, trekshark and JonnyQuest037 like this.
  9. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    And finally, it occurs to them that if the rest of the Federation is as hapless as these guys are, they're probably not a threat after all. It ends with the opening of diplomatic relations between the two.
     
    ThetaSigma likes this.
  10. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    The clue was that the first time Data said that they had been unconscious for 30 seconds, and then they found things like Worf's healed injury which showed otherwise. That evidence would still be there (if Crusher could remove all evidence, why didn't she do it the first time?), so they're going to find it again. The only way would be if Data said they were out for a week (or however long it had been since they first encountered the Paxans) but he doesn't.
     
    Richard S. Ta and JonnyQuest037 like this.
  11. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    Regarding Worf's injury, Crusher probably just healed it the first time, never mind erasing all traces of it. Worf's not the galaxy's most cooperative patient, after all. The second, Picard would have insisted that he stay in Sickbay until Crusher had erased all traces of the injury, and eliminated all pain.
     
    Richard S. Ta likes this.
  12. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    I would say "the Outrageous Okona"
    ...but does that one even have a plot?
    Though I all seriousness if your plot concept involves some sort of "space rogue" be sure to at least give him/her some roguish elements.
     
    Jedman67 likes this.
  13. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Let's say that Crusher could do that and ignore the question of why she didn't do it the first time. What about the other things? Crusher's moss experiment? How are they going to fix that?
     
    JonnyQuest037 likes this.
  14. Takeru

    Takeru Space Police Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Germany, EU, Earth
    Right but apparently they were very thorough and there were no other clues, at least not ones big enough to be noticed.

    Put the moss in a stasis chamber, have Data take it out before he wakes the crew up.
     
  15. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Funny thing is that the Paxans already placed everyone aboard in a stasis field.
    Since the Paxan's won't know what kind of species to expect, that stasis (field) should work on most lifeforms. Just apparently not on that pesky Diomedian scarlet moss ...
     
    Jedman67 likes this.
  16. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    My "joke" ending to that episode has Picard arguing with the Paxans about this being a dry run and needing to get it right this time — and the reply is "That's what you said the last three times. Destroy them!" BA-BOOM End of show.
     
  17. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 1999
    Location:
    Cheshire, UK
    upload_2022-8-9_20-45-26.png

    Best of seven?

    Damn right!
     
  18. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    I couldn't recognize the image for a bit + was wondering what it had to do with the topic + was trying to figure out why Luther Sloan looked so cadaverous (and when he appeared on TNG).

    Then it hit me.
    :beer::beer::beer:
     
  19. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    ??????????
     
    Richard S. Ta likes this.
  20. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    It's a picture of Death from "Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey", repeatedly losing at board games and moving the bar every time.
    • "Best two out of three?" (which is presumably the connection to my post)
    • "Best of five?"
    • "Best of seven?"
    It doesn't help him.

    The kicker is that he's played by Sloan's actor William Sadler, which connects him with Trek if not with TNG.
     
    Richard S. Ta and Ianburns252 like this.