Is it possible that these scenes actually exist?

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by Unimatrix Q, Jul 12, 2022.

  1. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Commodore Commodore

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    I read the following article many years ago, there are some interesting mentions about an early trailer for ROTJ:

    http://webspace.webring.com/people/au/um_7143/lost_sw.txt

    Quote: "There is at least one more "early ROTJ" trailer then what was included on [Definitive Collection] discs, one shown during a re-release of "Star Wars" between the release of "TESB" and "ROTJ." It featured a glowing chain around Vader's neck (possibly just highly reflective) and had Vader and Luke within some kind of ancient Greek-like structure. [I saw it] as part of a tape with various "SW" related items on it. Until then all I had was a [memory of seeing it] with my parents just before a re-release of "SW" (I wish I could remember the date, or for that matter the year). It's one of the few memories I have of seeing "Star Wars" in theaters that hasn't been corrupted by time on the Internet (i.e., "Hey, I think I remember that scene too..." variety) It must have been pretty darn rare, as I have yet to see anyone else mention it."

    Also remember reading an article either in 1993 or 1994, in a german scifi, horror and fantasy movie magazine named Moviestar that there is a cut scene in ESB with Luke fighting inside an AT-AT during the battle of Hoth and that footage about Leia and Han’s wedding was filmed for ROTJ.

    Wonder if there is actually some truth about these claims and if these things may actually lay still undiscovered in the archives of Lucasfilm.

    Maybe like it was the case with the rough cut for Star Wars…
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2022
  2. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Commodore Commodore

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    Found another possible hint that Han and Leia's wedding was possibly filmed for ROTJ on Wookieepedia:

    "It's rumored that [Star Wars: Episode VI Return of the Jedi](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Episode_VI_Return_of_the_Jedi) originally ended with the wedding. It has even been said that these scenes were filmed but never used.[[7]](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Wedding_of_Han_Solo_and_Leia_Organa#cite_note-copl-7)"

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Wedding_of_Han_Solo_and_Leia_Organa
     
  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Odd. I have not heard these rumors and even had a Star Wars Insider magazine that talked about a lot of deleted ideas from drafts, including Wedge flying escort for the stolen Imperial shuttle in a stolen TIE fighter. I don't recall these things. I wonder if Rinzler's book might have some better information than just the rumors?
     
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  4. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Commodore Commodore

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    By the way, i also wonder why the cut Wampa sub plot for ESB never appeared in Donald Glut's novelization, while it was part of the Marvel adaption.

    Especially because it was written before the production of the movie was in its later stages and even described Yoda's body differently as being blue for example.

    Is it even if only theoretically possible that footage for the OT exists or existed that didn't was ever revealed or used anywhere?

    Not even in the the earlier drafts?
     
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Same reasons why lots of scenes appear in the ROTS novel but not the final film-the authors work from different drafts than what is considered the final draft. With Lucas this is especially true, as he was rewriting Attack of the Clones right up to filming, to the frustration of Williams.

    Of course it's possible. That's why editing exists to take the raw material, as Lucas would put it, and assemble it together.
     
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  6. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Commodore Commodore

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    The strange thing with these Wampa scenes is that it seems that they were removed from ESB apparently relatively late during the production process. While the Yoda puppet must have been around for quite some time. That's why i wonder about the reason for omitting these scenes in the novelization.

    And to come back to my first post. Do you think the mentioned scenes like Luke and Vader fighting inside a greek looking structure, Luke opening an AT-AT from below with his lightsaber and fighting the stormtroopers inside it as well as the Han - Leia wedding on Endor could really have been filmed, although not appearing in any released material or drafts for the movies?
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My guess is (uneducated at this point) that there were storyboards for those, as well as some scenes from ESB used to fill out a trailer. The "Greek looking structure" is the one that I find the most confusing.

    The ESB drafts were all over the place. The Brackett draft is a very interesting read. I have a feeling that the author got a draft and then had their own deadline to construct the narrative around what information they have.
     
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  8. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Commodore Commodore

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  9. Reverend

    Reverend Admiral Admiral

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    Without any corroborating evidence, most of that can probably be dismissed as a product of the mandela effect.
    I've certainly never seen nor heard of anything like what's been described.

    I'd also be careful about sourcing information from non-english publications. It's not uncommon for there to be mistranslations both in the interview process itself between the interviewee presumably talking through a translator, or to a non-native speaking interviewer with a less than perfect grasp of English, and when translating such articles back into English. Misunderstandings simply from word choice seem to be very common in my experience.
    Plus of course journalists can often be less than clear as to whether they're publishing rumours or facts. Some I swear just made crap up.

    Hell I recall reading an interview with Carrie Fisher made and published during the production of tESB, for which the accompanying image was of her on the set of Dark Crystal (which filmed literally next door to tESB, at the same time) sitting with one of the Henson puppets (a landstrider I think?) The articles' author seemed convinced that it was a new Star Wars creature, and presented it as such. So there was clearly a significant disconnect there between whoever they sent down to the soundstages conduct interviews and take pictures, and whoever wrote up the final copy from the transcripts.
    IIRC the Dagobah stuff was some of the last (and most difficult) stuff to be filmed, as it was basically just Mark, Frank, and sometimes Kenny on the set with about 5 million snakes. While the Hoth location shooting was first, followed by the echo base stuff back in the UK, then all the Bespin and falcon interior shots. As such the Wampa stuff was essentially abandoned during production as it became clear from the rushes that the costume simply didn't work, even though they tried to make it work in the edit. I recall that there was at least one, if not two stop-motion shots of the Wampa encountering the Probe Droid that was never filmed and only showed up in storyboard & proto-animatics. That may have had as much to do with Tippett and his team being already overwhelmed & falling behind, but it also showed a clear de-emphasis of the creature sub-plot.

    As for Yoda' the final design of the puppet came right down to the wire. It's something they really struggled with and they didn't have anything like a final puppet to rehearse with, so mostly used a temp thing made out of straight up muppet style felt. So I wouldn't be surprised if the novelization had artefacts from earlier in production. Keep in mind that print media needs a lot of lead time, and it's really not worth the hassle and expense of pulping a run just because they suddenly need to change the word "blue" to "green" on like three pages, nor is it a massive priority to keep the author in the loop for each and every decision, reversal, and re-reversal during production and post-production (it would drive them to distraction even if they did, and the thing would never get done.)
    Remember also that a Novelization is just seen mostly as a promotional product for the movie, just like the t-shits, toys, and lunch boxes. It's not meant to be a definitive document.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2022
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  10. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Commodore Commodore

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    Yep, but that's still no reason to not include the scene. Especially as most movie adaptions use cut scenes to enhance the plot and Marvel showed these scenes in the comic.

    Regarding the wedding scene, i found another interesting comment about Han and Leias wedding on a german site about cutscenes:

    "Auch von mir ein Großes Danke Schön für die SB´s der Ur-Trilogie.
    Ich habe aber auch noch eine Frage zu den Deleted Scenes, könnte es sein das man eine Scene vieleicht vergessen hat?
    Vor Jahren habe ich mal in Holländischen Fernsehen,in einer Kinosendung (die damals auch das andere Ende von little shop of horror von 86 gesendet hatten) ein kleines Stück von der Hochzeit zwischen Leia & Han gesehen.
    Dies ist mir bis heute im Kopf hängen geblieben und aus dem Grund nun meine Frage ob der Verfasser des SB´s nun vielleicht auch hierzu noch Licht ins Dunkel bringen Kann?

    Danke und auch von mir:Möge die Macht mit Euch sein!!!

    Gruß euer charmingbaer"

    "Also from me a big thank you for the SB's of the original trilogy. But I also have a question about the deleted scenes, could it be that a scene has been forgotten? Years ago I saw a little piece of the wedding between Leia & Han on Dutch TV, in a cinema show (which at the time also aired the other end of little shop of horror from 86). This has stuck in my head to this day and for this reason I now ask whether the author of the SB can perhaps shed some light on this as well?

    Thank you and also from me: May the force be with you!!! Greetings from charmingbaer"

    https://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=17858

    It's also strange that apparently no one either asked Rinzler or Hidalgo about these rumors and/or noone from Lucasfilm so far denied that these scenes at least may have existed.
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They may feel no reason to deal in rumor. If they comment, even to deny it will only add fuel.
     
  12. Reverend

    Reverend Admiral Admiral

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    So? Marvel weren't directly collaborating with the novel author so of course there would be different choices. Likes say for example; a comic needs a little more action, and the first act of the movie is a little light on that between the wampa attack on Luke and the battle of Hoth, so why not use part of the abandoned thread? A novel has different requirements.
    Plus if LF reps stopped to answer every fan conspiracy theory and rumour, then that's all they'll ever be doing. Also, kinda not their job! ;)
     
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  13. publiusr

    publiusr Admiral Admiral

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    Off topic…but there was footage from THE THING where the character Fuchs died by shovel.