Donny's TOS Enterprise Interiors
- Thread starter Donny
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Maybe it's to represent the helm/navigation console, or the view screen?
I've long nursed a suspicion that with the early 540 ft. version of the ship, the pilot briefing room was intended to be in what would later become the bridge dome, and that the bridge was one deck below in the superstructure, which in the earliest versions was apparently circular and not tear-drop shaped as it would eventually be.
The size of the superstructure at the 540 ft. scale would have been about the same circumference, or slightly larger than, the bridge dome of the later 947 ft. version, which would have comfortably accommodated the large early concept bridge by Guzman.
It was only when the zoom-in shot was planned that it became necessary to have the bridge in the uppermost dome, (and thus the bridge/dome scale had to visually match pretty closely) but it was quickly realized the uppermost dome was too small for the bridge as envisioned, and since time was running out and it was too late in the production to go back to the drawing board, as it were, the simplest solution was to up the scale of the ship to 940 ft.
The size of the superstructure at the 540 ft. scale would have been about the same circumference, or slightly larger than, the bridge dome of the later 947 ft. version, which would have comfortably accommodated the large early concept bridge by Guzman.
It was only when the zoom-in shot was planned that it became necessary to have the bridge in the uppermost dome, (and thus the bridge/dome scale had to visually match pretty closely) but it was quickly realized the uppermost dome was too small for the bridge as envisioned, and since time was running out and it was too late in the production to go back to the drawing board, as it were, the simplest solution was to up the scale of the ship to 940 ft.
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Sorry, wrong. That zoom in shot is there from the get go in the earliest work pages of the script, just that originally it goes to a window. Jefferies would have been aware of this from the start.
hahaha I didn't say I *thought* it was the table -just that the table was the best way to make sense of its scale.OK, if that's the briefing room table, then where is the bridge?
That had always been my instinctive interpretation, but looking at the way its drawn that doesn't make sense, either (the bridge would have to be turned 90 degrees to the front of the ship - and the 15 suggested by the lift position has been controversial enoough lol).
Logically, I agree, but there's amble on-screen episode - across all series I think - to confirm that the bridge is where we think it is - stuck way up on top.
dJE
Hmm, side windows... one version of the bridge exterior markings (pilot 1?) has blocks on the side. Maybe they were originally going to be side portals but perhaps for a ring corridor circling the bridge?
I’m familiar with this bit of trivia, however.
For me, the questions that needs to be asked, and answered, are whether the earliest work pages of the script indicates that the window is in the uppermost dome specifically, or was it possibly in the superstructure?
Also, at what point in script development did the shot change from a window to the top of the uppermost dome?
And how precisely do the dates for the relevant script changes compare with the development of the plans for the filming miniatures and the various scale and exterior detail changes as they occurred?
Do we even have enough information to answer these questions?
Unless, or until, we have these questions answered, my suspicion will remain just that.
I totally agree. That is traditionally where you con the ship from.
Historical note: In the age of sail ships were commanded from the quarterdeck. The area in front of the wheel. Then came steam and huge paddle wheel boxes that blocked the view. A bridge was built between them and the captain moved there. Screws replaced paddles, but superstructures got larger and the "bridge" got moved further up. Hence the "bridge" at or near the top of the ship.
Today's naval vessels are more often commanded from the Combat Information Center in the guts of the ship. Someone is still on the bridge to steer, bu the Captain is downstairs in the CIC.
So in my personal designs I do not place the bridge on deck one. I bury it in the ship. A window outside is pointless. What are you going to see of another ship 10,000 kilometers away out a window? NOTHING! It's a dot. Sensors are needed to see anything. No window, no need to be where you can put a window.
The bridge is at the center of the deflector grid that radiates out from that point. We know that grid was not originally there, and that Jefferies opposed putting it there, but it is there, and from an “in universe” perspective might well be seen as placing the bridge at the most well-defended place on the ship.
Did they have a final design for the Enterprise nailed down by this point, or was Gene kind of spitballing here regarding where things are on the ship?
Earlier versions of this same scene actually roughly describe the ship but it's nothing like what we got. I suspect Roddenberry dropped the description because why give details on something when you don't know what it's going to look like?
Well I guess that rectangle could match the side block on the bridge in this close-up from "The Cage". Weird that it's an exterior feature shown on the interior cutaway.
From the us of Robert April, this is a fairly early draft. Though it isn't the Yorktown so it isn't very early. By October 64 they had the rough design down. This is likely when the 203 crew size was being used. But by shooting in November, Jefferies had drawn the plans to send to Datin and his shop to build the 33 inch model. The 11 foot model was delivered after shooting in late December. My guess is that they did not have the final design when this was written. I would guess this is from earlier in 64 and probably set the stage for the "bridge must be on top" design mandate that Roddenberry handed down to Probert in the 80's.
Thanks Ryan, this is the source document I remember seeing somewhere.An image of the script to help illustrate the point.
Note the use of "1701", so this has to be be later in the design timeline than Jefferies decision to use these numbers, whenever that was.
Note also that the tiny rectangles/observation ports are "above the huge letters" which, to me, suggests directly above, and therefore more likely the superstructure, especially since that's where ports ended up in the final design. YMMV.
RE the bridge's safest place at the center of the saucer rather than on top:
"Your pattern indicates...two dimensional thinking."
In a combat situation, if (say) a D7
is dead ahead, all that's necessary is to pitch the nose up by 15 degrees or so relative to the enemy vessel. Now not only is there no direct line of fire to the bridge, any torpedo has to cut obliquely through the entire radius of the saucer to even reach the bridge--in other words, a whole lotta empty crew quarters. The brilliance of a saucer is that a 15 degree roll in any direction relative to the threat puts the bridge behind the meat of the saucer, actually further from harm than if it were in the saucer's center. At least, that's my headcanon. YMMV.
"Your pattern indicates...two dimensional thinking."
In a combat situation, if (say) a D7
is dead ahead, all that's necessary is to pitch the nose up by 15 degrees or so relative to the enemy vessel. Now not only is there no direct line of fire to the bridge, any torpedo has to cut obliquely through the entire radius of the saucer to even reach the bridge--in other words, a whole lotta empty crew quarters. The brilliance of a saucer is that a 15 degree roll in any direction relative to the threat puts the bridge behind the meat of the saucer, actually further from harm than if it were in the saucer's center. At least, that's my headcanon. YMMV.
The ship design was really late. In fact, so late they only got one shot of the hero miniature in the pilot.
What we know as "The Cage" started off as a story outline in late June 64 and there was a script in August and many many changes and page rewrites followed. The ship was roughly described along with the "Get off my ship," docking scene but said description was tossed as was the scene. I think Jefferies started with a fairly clean plate.
What we know as "The Cage" started off as a story outline in late June 64 and there was a script in August and many many changes and page rewrites followed. The ship was roughly described along with the "Get off my ship," docking scene but said description was tossed as was the scene. I think Jefferies started with a fairly clean plate.
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For the first time I was able to have a look at these stunning animated starship Interiors. I am especially impressed by the Enterprise E corridors. So much FC atmosphere. Wow, wow, wow!
