"Where Silence Has Lease": Nagilum's observations

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Ragitsu, Dec 7, 2021.

  1. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well that's a handy rationalization I don't completely buy
     
  2. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    For Nagilum, the (presumably human) scientists or both?
     
  3. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, while it is viewing humanity through a very unfavourable lens, those observations aren't necessarily invalid.
    • Finds no tranquility in anything.
    That could be linked to their desire to explore. Not being content with what you know, the status quo, but always desiring to know more - that is, after all, a kind of intranquility.
    • Struggles against the inevitable.
    If Nagilum was as powerful as it seemed, he could have forced death on one third of the crew had he really desired to do so, and in that sense it would have been inevitable, but they kept struggling against that fate, finding that 'compromise' unacceptable.
    • Rash.
    Blowing up the ship, preferring to cause your own end ensuring all die, rather than let Nagilum kill only a portion of them could be viewed, I suppose, as rash.

    The 'militant, agressive, hostile' part could be due to their ship bristling with weaponry, their blowing up that Romulan warbird (even though it fired on them first), and perhaps how Worf responded on that fake Yamato.
    • Quick to judge.
    • Slow to change.
    Those are harder for me to place.

    Disclaimer: I don't agree with Nagilum, only saying he could interpret events that way.
     
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  4. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Commodore Commodore

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    It's also interesting that that the writers had Nagilum create illusions of romulan warbirds instead of ferengi marauders.

    Weren't the Ferengi still meant to be the main enemies of the Federation in TNG, at this point?
     
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  5. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Eh, Nagilums assessment sounded more some pseudo-philosophical bullpoop put there by an uninspired script writer.

    I don't think it has any direct relation to what happened in the episode.
     
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  6. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    Nomex tick.
     
  7. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    I don't necessarily disagree with everything it stated...I just think it would've been neat to connect those remarks to the crew's actual actions instead of having the assessment based (solely?) off of mind-reading.
     
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  8. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    Come to think of it, Picard was willing to put the Enterprise in harm's way for an individual ("Justice"). A later episode would examine the necessity of sacrificing a crew member for the safety of the ship, BUT...they're also big on "Leave no one behind.".
     
  9. Dukhat

    Dukhat Admiral Admiral

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    The Ferengi stopped being credible enemies of the Federation after the first episode they were featured in.
     
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  10. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And the Romulans were re-introduced at the end of Season 1, possibly to replace the Ferengi as "main antagonists"
     
  11. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Regarding Haskell, we don't know everything. Maybe he had a wife onboard, or a kid in the ship's daycare center. Is it wrong for him to want to go for the star fix and guarantee their safety? And regardless, sacrificing two crew to save 1000 is a reasonable decision, one that both Riker and Worf would completely support.

    "Scientific Method" revisits this theme. And, Janeway's response is surprisingly similar to Picard's.
     
  12. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe, maybe and maybe. All we have to go on for certain is that which was displayed.

    I'm sure they would probably volunteer, but that's not the same as sacrificing them. The Captain has shown that he doesn't allow that kind of arithmetic to guide his decisions ("Justice", "Where Silence Has Lease" and "Man of the People").
     
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  13. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Good thing Riker wasn't testing him in "Thine Own Self"!
     
  14. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Starfleet captains don't appreciate being effed with...
     
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  15. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    Remember When The Bough Breaks?

    How many children were taken? How many people reside onboard the Enterprise? Fifty to sixty years (at least) at Warp 9? Yeah...if it were a simple matter of comparing numbers, Picard would have ordered the ship to leave. This assumes, of course, that Radue could have made good on his threat and wasn't just throwing hyperbole out there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2021
  16. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Most likely he couldn't have made good on his threat.

    Even if only because if those abducted children stayed there, they would become infertile as well (as Beverly asserts at the end of the episode).
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2021
  17. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, he didn't know that at the time.
     
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  18. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    They were in the dark on that particular fact until it was brought to their attention.
     
  19. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Commodore Commodore

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    ...can you imagine if the events of Star Trek: Voyager had been kicked off not because of the Caretaker's desire to find a mate, but because of one seriously steamed Radue?

    Janeway: "Oops."
     
  20. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Good points on how Nagilum could have seen the crew.

    He obviously could have either been telepathic or was able to go through the ship's database. Possibly both. This explains why he was able to create a fake Romulan warbird and the Yamato.

    Regarding 'quick to judge' and 'slow to change', he could be referring to the historical records. Or just the thoughts of the crew. 'Slow to change' could be a reference to our history, as real change does take a very long time. 'Quick to judge' could very well refer to the same thing.


    In any event, this has always been one of my favorite episodes. Excellent creep factor, great premise, great performances. And it kicked off the TNG season 2 theme of how dangerous space really is. (At least, I feel that was the theme. Few seasons in the franchise really capture that feel like this one did.)