Was Takei's reason silly for not appearing in Generations?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Aldo, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. Kamdan

    Kamdan Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    This is absolutely correct. I own the first draft of the script and can confirm this was how it played out. The original crew was introduced all cramped together in the turbolift and they were sitting aside of the bridge when the Enterprise-B launched. I couldn’t picture how they’d get the whole cast on the bridge in this fashion so it was wisely rewritten to be just the trio.
     
  2. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2015
    Location:
    Jedman67
    can you post it?
     
  3. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Real Gone
    Guys...it's an ancient necro-thread.
     
  4. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Location:
    Peach Wookiee
    Okay, guys, let's deal with this, shall we? First, I realize necro-threads are an issue, but silent_space_fart is new to our forum. If you have a problem with a thread being necro'd, just report it and let me take care of it. If you aren't a mod, talk to someone who is!
    ETA: I do not want to have to warn people for piling on new people.

    silent_space_fart, since you're new, you may not have been aware that we do have a rule that threads that have not had a post in over a year are considered past the expiration date. Please check the date of the last time a post was made. Then start a new thread and link to the old one for reference, okay?

    Further ETA: Since we have a productive discussion about the topic at hand, however, I am leaving this thread open.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  5. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Location:
    South Pennsyltucky
    I've long felt that if Rick Berman had a little more vision, he should have held the crossover film for the 30th-anniversary in 1996 and done a standalone original series film in 1994 that also set up the crossover film. But Hollywood didn't do "big picture" thinking like that at that time; that's what made Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy so surprising and so risky.

    Back to the original idea in the thread, I think there are ways of making the film prologue work with Sulu that also would have dealt with Takei's concerns.

    Let's suppose you have a trio of Kirk, Sulu, and Scotty, and Demora is Chekov's daughter instead.

    Everything goes as we see it... until Harriman realizes he needs help and he turns to Sulu, the active duty officer, instead. Or he turns to Kirk who defers instead to Sulu, the active duty officer. From that point, Sulu has Kirk's lines and when it comes time for Sulu to go down to deflector control Kirk jumps in and says, "No, I'll do it."

    It would work. It would emphasize that Kirk feels a bit useless since he's just a spectator to all of this, but we would also lose the subtle touch of Kirk almost sitting in the center seat before he decides to go to deflector control.

    Would this have made Takei happy? Who can say? Does anything make Takei happy? But it would have addressed his concerns about Sulu's apparent "demotion" by making him more central in a way that also emphasized Kirk's arc.
     
    Therin of Andor and ATimson like this.
  6. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Verona, New Jersey, USA
    I suppose it could work, but it sounds remarkably unnecessary.

    Despite what George Takei seems to think, Sulu does not have a comparable fanbase with Kirk. He just doesn't. So jumping through hoops to try and make George Takei happy seems silly, especially when you can just as easily make the movie without him. (Which is exactly what they did.)

    Honestly, does it make a difference to anyone besides George Takei whether or not a TOS episode features Sulu? For most episodes I'd honestly have to think for a second to remember if he was in it or not. Don't get me wrong, I like Sulu (and Takei, for the most part), but he's just not that important of a character in the overall scheme of things.
     
    TREK_GOD_1 and Allyn Gibson like this.
  7. Kamdan

    Kamdan Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    As soon as Berman uploads Maurice Hurley‘s movie script.
     
    DaddlerTheDalek and Allyn Gibson like this.
  8. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    Didn't Kirk in TMP take a step down from Admiralty to Captaincy because he wanted to be on the Enterprise?

    But Sulu isn't Kirk either, so it is nice to see characters go in different directions - it's refreshing. Having his daughter follow in the proverbial footsteps would make more sense and not feel like a retread. Takei's point was a good one...

    ...that, and it was Riker (as with Kirk) who got so strung up with Enterprise that that'd do anything to stay on it. Save for NEM, when he goes off to become captain of the Titan.
     
    Therin of Andor likes this.
  9. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    I think TSfS felt way too focused.
     
  10. Haggis and tatties

    Haggis and tatties Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    Glasgow
    They could say Sulu was demoted to helmsman again on the Enterprise B due to all the cups and saucers he broke while captain of the Excelsior. :p
     
    JonnyQuest037 likes this.
  11. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Location:
    Configuring the Ontarian Manifold
    I think the basic idea that the TOS crew had to jump in and save the Enterprise-B shows that Starfleet is completely irresponsible in assigning competent crew to their best starships. Did no one else ever fight off anomalies or giant hands in space? Or was the Enterprise-B continuing the new tradition of being a training vessel?
     
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    Well, it was supposed to be a press cruise so you wanted people to smile and look nice for the camera and give lots of pizzazz, not necessarily competence.
     
  13. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2015
    Location:
    Jedman67
    Is there any version that has already been released onto the internet?

    If you consider it to be a training vessel with a more "green" captain, you can get away with it.
    If it's meant to be the new flagship of the Federation, than having a green captain and crew really makes no sense. Kirk was absolutely not needed and should not have been anything more than a spectator, and sending a retired admiral to fix a problem that should only have been touched by a certified technician (engineer).
    Lot of flaws with that movie :lol:
     
  14. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Location:
    South Pennsyltucky
    The Hurley script has never leaked; it's doubtful anyone other than Berman and Hurley have ever seen it. Berman's released a photo of the cover page. That's all we've seen.
     
  15. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Manchester
    Reading between the lines, the Hurley script was written to be intentionally terrible to ensure that the Braga/Moore script was chosen.

    It was only the studio's insistence on having two scripts that meant it was commissioned in the first place, so Berman asked Hurley to do him a favour.

    I guess the reason it's never leaked is because Berman doesn't want it out there because it's rubbish and would make Hurley look bad.
     
    JonnyQuest037 likes this.
  16. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Real Gone
    ^^^And next thing you know this will be on Memory Alpha...
     
    Therin of Andor and Tomalak like this.
  17. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ha! Citation needed...
     
  18. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    "TrekBBS." (Some of my TrekBBS posts have ended up over there!)
     
  19. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    George did not feel his sacrifice a vain or empty one, and we will not debate his profound wisdom at these proceedings. :p
     
    Therin of Andor likes this.
  20. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Location:
    Escaped from Delta Vega
    Self-deception runs through Takei's veins, probably making him think that one day he will be the "Star" of Star Trek, with Sulu seen as the face of a franchise.

    This.
     
    ChallengerHK and JonnyQuest037 like this.