What happens to TWOK if TMP keeps the TOS uniforms?

hopefully, nothing. i love, love, love, love the uniforms designed for TWOK. my favorite trek uniform; actually probably my favorite movie uniform costume of all time.

 

I literally just had an idea for a thought experiment: What if, instead of entirely new uniforms for the officers, Meyer had kept the two-piece uniforms and put the TWOK jacket, or something similar, on top ot them that could be removed for day-to-day use? How well do you think this would have satisfied everyone here who think the monster maroons are too formal/dressy for day-to-day use?

 

Honestly, that's my favorite interpretation I have seen in trying to loosen up the feel of the maroons. I mean, they already have the division colored turtlenecks so why not just have a formal jacket to put over the duty uniform, like the field jacket.

I lack the art skills but I really want to rework the Maroons using the turtlenecks in to a duty uniform, with the maroon jacket a part of a more formal dress uniform. But, that might involve redoing the rank insignia...

 

That's basically what the US Navy had (for officers and chiefs, anyway) in WW2. The khaki shirt and pants for regular duty, adding a coat and tie to make it more formal. The officer coming aboard at right has on the full uniform.

 

I got the vibe that the costumes reflect more in which they time they're made rather than an extension of the fictional universe they were building (to varying extents.)

The 1960s had the loud and bold colors to help sell more new color TVs with as TOS was one of the first shows to be full color proper*, plus stylish go-go boots and even trend-setted bellbottoms in a way.
* and the artistry involved with the use of color remains sumptuous, but unique to the era

The 1970s was often seeing cozy and earthy environments. Shows like "The Waltons" and schmaltzy sitcoms (certainly the ones that Norman Lear had nothing to do with, but his were popular too) were in high popularity. Cozy beige and muted-hued pajamas were as vogue as the sleep-inducing (for some) plotting. At the time, they were thinking ahead to expand the universe and not just revel in it, since it wasn't old enough to be seen for a nostalgia-driven revival just yet.

Star Wars may have started the trend, but the 1980s was the first real decade to really hone and show a more standardized and branded look, even if TOS had its own branding of sorts (albeit a branding deemed as unofficial as it was chaotic at the time, especially when you don't put security personnel in a bold, bright red outfit to ensure every villain can see what to incapacitate that much quicker...) Until the 1980s, Trek was also inconsistent with militaristic themes so it'd make sense that the movies would take a direction and stick with it. Or at least try to.

Then came TNG and someone had the bright idea of returning to the tri-color glory, but swapping red and gold to ensure all those dumb "redshirt" jokes would be supplanted by "goldshirt" ones. But the new angled look was as stylish as it was... late-80s. Still, it somehow worked, and given the choice I'd rather see a return to 60s styles updated over redoing TMP - but replacing beige and blue pajamas with what the Edo wore for the crew instead.

 

Actually the switch happened because it was decided that Patrick Stewart looked better in red than gold.

 

"Color proper"?

Well, that'd be a surprise to the makers of Bonanza, which was in color as far back as 1960.

Color programming started in the 50s, and by 1961 NBC has almost 180 affiliates supporting color broadcasts, even having "color days" where the bulk of programs here in color. And but for two programs NBC was all-color in prime network the year before Star Trek.

In January 1966, some 70% of the combined prime time programming from the three networks was in color; broken down, almost 100% of NBC’s schedule was in color, 51% of CBS’s schedule and 49% of ABC’s schedule [38]. NBC became the first all-color network when daytime game show Concentration switched to color on November 7th, 1966.
Source: TV Obscurities.
​

So, no, Star Trek was hardly near a "first" in the color game. It also wasn't unique for its time in being very colorful. It was perhaps unique in that it fused intense color into noirish lighting setups.

 

TWOK would still be TWOK with TMP uniforms, it would look more Star Trek than Hornblower from outer space. At least the cast wearing TMP outfits wouldn't constantly appear to be ready for a military ceremony in every scene.

 

I always just assumed they went to jackets so they could cover up the middle age spread that the actors had…..

 

Not in TWOK the actors still was in decent shape and then came TSFS and it appeared everyones waistlines with the exceptions of Takei, and Deforest Kelley started to expand. These unflattering outfits were popular based on TWOK's huge success; if Gene Roddenberry created those uniforms for TMP I seriously doubt critics would praise the monster maroons along side a so-called bad movie. I think if those uniforms were in TMP the movie would be criticized even more because it was such a radical change and it doesn't honor TOS in anyway. It looks like a costume from a person who didn't give two shits about Star Trek.

 

That's not entirely true. TWOK had the same bloused capri pants for everyone that TOS had.

 

I know one of our resident authors, Christopher Bennett, feels much the same way you do about TWOK uniforms, that they are way to dressy for every day use.

I noted before I have mixed feelings about them. They look every nice. Like something they would wear if they were greeting a dignitary or having a ceremony. But they just don't seem that practical for every day use. Things improved slightly in later movies, like in TFF when Kirk had just a vest over the turtleneck instead of the jacket.

But they don't remind me at all of prior uniforms (or even later uniforms all that much). And hopefully they kept the A/C on the ship turned up on high because I know I'd be sweating my butt off with that heavy turtleneck AND a jacket.

 

I'd say when moving to the big screen, there was never going to be any doubt that the cast, would be costumed differently than they'd been on a show from the trippy 60s, & I'd also say that when making TWoK there too would've been no doubt about changing them, given that the entire dynamic of the production seemed to change similarly.

I kind of like the maroons. They look... uniform

 

As do a lot of other people on this board, so why invoke him in particular?

 

This is my biggest complaint regarding the film uniforms, both TMP and TWOK. No matter what there is little design connective tissue from TOS to TMP to TWOK. It feels very sporadic, like the quartermaster just had a drawing contest to see who which elementary school could come up with Starfleet's next design.

 

He came to mind because there was a line in his most recent book about that very issue.

 

Ah. Unsurprising, he loves to explain every little thing.

 

It was a throwaway line, a minor swipe at the 'new' uniform (since his novel took place not long after the uniform was changed to that version). Some people might have even missed it. I just happened to pick up on it because I know he's said in the past he's not overly fond of that particular uniform.

 

Now the jackets at the end of TMP remind me a bit of those from the pilot…I like TMP uniforms for ground ops…TWOK uniforms for Starfleet Marines…TNG third season for ships and DS9 uniforms for space stations.

I would have liked to see that.