TOS Timeline Questions

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by marlboro, Jan 23, 2019.

  1. ryan123450

    ryan123450 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    Location:
    Woodward, OK
    Before The Corbomite Maneuver. I personally don’t prefer that, for the uniform inconsistency, but there are no flawless versions of the TOS timeline…
     
    Oz Trekkie, Jinn and TheAlmanac like this.
  2. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2000
    Location:
    There and back again...
    Yeah, I wouldn't like shifting it to before TCM, either. I might be willing to accept it as the next episode after "Mudd's Women," but that uniform change is too significant an indicator of the order of things for me to completely ignore it.

    So what are the downsides to moving episodes from "The Corbomite Maneuver" through "Charlie X" to late 2265? I think "Balance of Terror" would be the first major event that might need to be in 2266, since the year's been pretty heavily referenced as "the first Romulan incursion across the Neutral Zone," etc...

    Another question, while I'm thinking of it. I was looking through my notes, and have "February?" down as a date for "The Menagerie," but for the life of me, I cannot figure out where I might have pulled that from. Any ideas? It's gotta be 2267 for the "thirteen years ago" references to 2254, but February, specifically?

    I just wish there weren't about 15 episodes (plus who knows how many novels/comics) stuffed into the first three months of 2267. I don't think there's a more overcrowded stretch of the 5YM.

    EDIT: I saw Christopher mention that he'd modified his dating for Forgotten History versus the published version. Since that book is kind of a lynchpin in dating certain episodes, how much would that shift things?
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    For what it's worth, I deal with "Charlie X" by bumping it to later in the season and putting it in November '66.

    I don't recall doing that, and my chronology doesn't indicate any change. Some bits of the 24th-century DTI material have pretty much been rendered apocryphal by the Picard continuity, or have to be treated as an alternate timeline, but that's the only reinterpretation I recall.
     
  4. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I also day counted all of pre-Ent Trek a while ago, but my documents are written in weird half-German/half-English and I didn't have the time to fully translate everything to English yet ^^

    Ohhh, I like that solution!

    Not really the same thing, but I vaguely recall some timeline discrepancies between Forgotten History and maybe The Higher Frontier, that were discussed in the Timeliners group?
     
    ryan123450 likes this.
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Oh? Like what?
     
  6. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Sorry, I seem to have misremembered that. I thought it was something in regards to a reference in The Higher Frontier putting "In Truth There Is No Beauty" shortly after "Assignment: Earth", thus squishing half of season 3 in a month, but looking at the post it all worked out. We even used this reference and another to triangulate a reasonable start date for the novel and for the episode (although the latter didn't quite work for unrelated timeline reasons, I think?)
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I've got them 6 months apart in my chronology.
     
  8. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2015
    That tracks with our conclusion from your novels as well.
     
  9. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2000
    Location:
    There and back again...
    That would work too. I can't think of anything that would be lost by putting "Charlie X" between "Miri" and "The Conscience of the King" or even after "Conscience," unless we wanted to "preserve" that as Rand's final appearance in production order.

    This is the post I was recalling, from Ryan's "TOS Litverse-Based Chronology" thread:

    The last sentence there is what made me think you meant you'd moved things around since writing Forgotten History. I was wondering what you might have shifted, but maybe you didn't change anything after all? Thinking about the date FH gives for "Yesteryear", not for FH itself, sorry if I was unclear.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    As I remarked in a recent discussion, Rand never officially left; she just stopped showing up, like DeSalle or Riley, or like Sulu for much of season 2. So she could've just been offscreen in episodes where she didn't appear. That's why some early novelists had her still on board in season 3 or after.



    What I meant was that I had to move the other TAS dates in my chronology slightly to reconcile with Seekers while keeping the date for "Yesteryear" that I explicitly gave in FH, thereby requiring me to change the order in which I had the TAS episodes occur. The only dates I changed in my personal chronology were those that have not appeared in a published work and thus remain unfixed.
     
    ATimson likes this.
  11. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2000
    Location:
    There and back again...
    Sure, but, as with Riley and DeSalle, there's also references to her transferring off the Enterprise or taking a leave of absence from Starfleet entirely. And given that those early novels take place later, it's easy for Rand to be gone from early 2267 to late 2269, at least.

    Good to know, thanks. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Yeah, but the exact time of that isn't specified, so there's wiggle room. It doesn't have to be immediately after her last episode.
     
  13. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2000
    Location:
    There and back again...
    I never said otherwise. I presented an option, not a requirement, and was speaking only of the order of her TV appearances, not her overall "last appearance" including TrekLit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
    JonnyQuest037 and TheAlmanac like this.
  14. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2000
    Location:
    There and back again...
    How long a gap does everyone have between "Court Martial" and "The Menagerie"? Could be almost immediately back to back, or there could be at least a few weeks between to allow for the handover from Commodore Stone to Commodore Mendez.

    I'm trying to keep "The Menagerie" in 2267 ("thirteen years" after "The Cage"), but following the dates in Vanguard and Forgotten Destiny means moving it out of production order to do so, so I'm trying to figure out which episodes to flip around. "Arena" and "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" both need to be in 2266, apparently, but I'm not sure about the rest.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I have them about 6 weeks apart. In between is the star charting mission mentioned as "last year" in "The Doomsday Machine."

    I have "The Cage" in April '54 and "The Menagerie" in November '66. That's 12 years and 7 months, which rounds up to 13.
     
  16. ryan123450

    ryan123450 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    Location:
    Woodward, OK
    This inspires me to tweak that area of my timeline, as I knew it currently didn’t align with the multiple references in Burning Dreams to The Menagerie being in 2267, but I hadn’t noticed how easy it would be to make the ‘13 years ago’ reference work, just by pushing it back two months from my current placement.
     
    TheAlmanac likes this.
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I don't think Burning Dreams is consistent with Discovery season 2, with regard to Pike's father, his return to Talos, and the details of his accident.
     
  18. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2000
    Location:
    There and back again...
    For me, that's reasonable rounding for anyone but Spock. If it came from someone else, I'd be less concerned with keeping it in 2267, but the line feels more appropriate from Spock if the calendar years match up.
     
    JonnyQuest037 and TheAlmanac like this.
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Only if you use the Gregorian calendar. Where the year begins or ends is arbitrary. I would expect Spock to be as picky and literalistic about numbers as I am, and I always favor using the actual interval between two dates over the much rougher standard of treating entire calendar years as monolithic units.

    Of course, by the same token, Spock would be more likely to say "twelve-point-five-eight years," but reconciling an inconsistent canon is always an imperfect exercise. Compromises have to be made. Then again, I suppose I could just move "The Cage" back a few months. I'm not sure why I put it in April.
     
  20. ryan123450

    ryan123450 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    Location:
    Woodward, OK
    The Timeliners also seem to have “The Cage” in April, though I don’t find any notes as to why exactly.

    If anyone is interested, I did update the relevant area of my timeline to adjust the month for “The Menagerie.” So now I have a month or less between “Court Martial” and “The Menagerie.”

    https://startreklitverse.com/the-five-year-mission--month-by-month.php
     
    JonnyQuest037 and TheAlmanac like this.