Second Chances

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Tribble Threat, Jan 2, 2021.

  1. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    Either that or they were all duplicates except for him and Naomi. It's impossible to tell.
     
  2. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think you misunderstood me.
    I was saying that if the writers had decided to bring back Tom Riker then no life-long sentence in a Cardassian (or any other) jail would have stopped them from doing so, it wouldn't have meant a thing.
     
  3. flandry84

    flandry84 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The whole episode smacks of a “Hey wouldn’t it be cool if..” moment in the writers room.Very little thought given to the implications for either Riker ,again displaying a disregard for the character.
    How many times did we get Lore or Kurn or bloody Lwaxanna?
     
  4. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe Jonathan Frakes didn't enjoy playing this character, which is why he wasn't given more development.
     
  5. flandry84

    flandry84 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Can’t see why he wouldn’t.
    Tom is very interesting in that he gets a kind of “It’s a wonderful life” view of how Will’s life turned out.
    Maybe he finally realises that okay,Starfleet has that guy leaving me (Tom) to take another path.
     
  6. Tribble Threat

    Tribble Threat Commander Red Shirt

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    I think Will Riker always had potential as a character, but Tom made a great underdog who suffered in life. But the writers should have had Will be kinder to Tom. This episode was the first and so far the only time I watched Will and really disliked him.
     
  7. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What I liked about the episode was Troi was still in love with a memory and had the opportunity to explore it and wanted Thomas to stay; Marina's expressions when he decided he was going was all there on screen. I felt for her because she showed with just expressions of how much she loved that memory and how that memory can hurt just the same. I thought this was Sirtis' best work on TNG, and this episode may have laid the ground work of her character's well developed, and earned relationship with Worf.
     
  8. gakelly

    gakelly Commander Red Shirt

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    The first time I watched the episode I was expecting Thomas Riker to try to kill Will and take his place when they were alone on the planet.
     
  9. Sisko_is_my_captain

    Sisko_is_my_captain Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You know, thinking back on how Will treated Tom, I wonder if Will doesn't hate (at least) several aspects of himself. Perhaps Tom reminds Will unfavorably of their father. Or maybe deep down, Will just doesn't like himself as much as his gregariousness suggests.
     
  10. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not after Imzadi II and Star Trek Online.
     
  11. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Doesn't Worf have a scene with Data where he says something to that effect in that very episode? I think it's clear that the way they played it, Will has some esteem issues, & given how his history eventually fleshes out, it's easy to see why. In some ways Will's projected persona is a big put-on.
     
  12. Sisko_is_my_captain

    Sisko_is_my_captain Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Maybe so - it's been a while since I saw it.
     
  13. Tribble Threat

    Tribble Threat Commander Red Shirt

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    Oh, Will definitely had self esteem issues that motivated him to be a jerk to Tom. But still, his repeated failure to stop himself from being a jerk shows a weakness of character.
     
  14. AKTunaya14

    AKTunaya14 Ensign Red Shirt

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    I hadn't thought about this but I have to agree. I think that would have been very enjoyable. The character definitely deserved it. I see people saying this episode made Will look bad and I didn't see it that way, I was siding with Will most of the time and I think he handled the situation, as jarring as it was, quite well. His annoyance and frustration with him, I think, was a normal response.
    I do think that had they done a quieter episode it would have given Will a lot of credit. I really enjoy the episodes where we get to see Will Riker's softer side. That said, even with the action I felt a bit emotional after this one, maybe because I thought the storyline with Deanna was quite sad? I'm not sure.
     
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  15. amp

    amp Commander Red Shirt

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    Will is often a jerk to people who he considers beneath him. Among others, he's been rude to Barclay, Lavelle, Tam Elbrun, and Ro (in her debut episode). It's rather galling since all of these people (except for Tam) were underlings and in his chain of command.
     
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  16. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He's damn well overbearing in general any time he gets promoted to acting captain too. In fact, the only guy I've ever seen be more miserable in a lead role is Worf, & that ought to tell you something. Whenever I rewatch Yesterday's Enterprise, it's actually a little jarring to me how grumpy he is, even to Picard. I'm not saying he's bad at it. He's had some great moments, but frankly, he doesn't seem all that comfortable being in command. He almost seems ill at ease with it
     
  17. amp

    amp Commander Red Shirt

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    It seems that every time he takes command either Troi or Guinan has to (metaphorically, at least) hit him upside the head to get him to do his job.

    I've always thought the undercurrent of dislike between Picard and RIker is a really nice touch in "Yesterday's Enterprise". It is jarring and it illustrates how different that timeline is from the normal one.
     
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  18. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

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    Beneath him? Well that's one interpretation. His attitudes towards Ro and Tam were completely understandable considering the circumstances. You're glossing over that. Same with Barclay. Remember, Barclay in the beginning was an epic screw up. Could Riker have taken a more mentorish approach? Yea, perhaps he could have but him acting as he did towards Barclay isn't really out of line for a superior officer. Now Lavelle, okay he was a bit of a jerk to him. I'll give you that.
     
  19. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Tam had a mental condition. So no, Riker's attitude towards him was NOT understandable.
    And with Ro he was just pissy that she wasn't overjoyed to be on the Enterprise. "iTs A pRiViLiGe!!1!"
     
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  20. gakelly

    gakelly Commander Red Shirt

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    Riker was a real jerk to the woman on ops in the episode where the ship's power was going out. I think it was Contagion.