Hard Time

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Tribble Threat, Oct 29, 2020.

  1. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    I'll make an additional counterargument... what if Miles had been subjected to more "traditional" methods of torture, such as the rack, or red hot pincers. What if when he was returned, his body was so badly broken that he couldn't walk, and his skin covered with hideous burns? Would you show similar restraint then?

    The damage that was done to him might have not been as easy to see, but it was far more severe.
     
  2. XCV330

    XCV330 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Location:
    XCV330
    Jesus, are you pitching a tent over bad stuff happening to Miles? You needed a job on the writers staff for ds9. :)
    This is moving from a discussion into something that happened into an episode into how long Obrien needs to be on the taffy puller before we can get that war boner satisfaction.

    however long you want, dude. bigly.
     
  3. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    My mansion on Qo'noS
    They summarily convicted and carried out a sentence on a visiting member of a foreign space navy who was there in good faith on a typical peaceful Starfleet mission of mutual aid and cooperation, without even bothering to notify his superiors until after the fact.

    So Starfleet and the Federation had absolutely no chance to negotiate or intercede on Miles' behalf. At the very least, that's extremely poor diplomacy on the part of the Argrathi. So in the interests of protecting their own personnel, Starfleet should have restricted future dealings with the Argrathi, and withheld any further benevolent missions to their planet.

    Kor
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
    dupersuper and Mr. Laser Beam like this.
  4. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    That might be satisfying in its own way. The Agrathi are invaded, or an asteroid hits the planet. They ask for Federation aid, and the Federation council says "remember what you pulled last time we had people on your planet?"
     
  5. XCV330

    XCV330 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Location:
    XCV330
  6. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    Moopsy
    After the hell he has been through I thought he would appreciate 25 years alone in peace....even if he did have to eat scraps of food and shit on the floor :lol:
     
    XCV330 likes this.
  7. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    As far as I'm concerned, Keiko earned her status as "awesome wife" in "Accession".
     
  8. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Confederation of Earth
    In what way is it "war boner satisfaction" to suggest that the Argrathi should (in any way) be held accountable for what happened to O'Brien?

    I see no reason why they should just get away scot-free.
     
    Farscape One likes this.
  9. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    Moopsy
    Holding a nation to account doesnt mean you have to bomb the shit out of someone. :lol:

    Trade sanctions from the federation would hurt. Diplomatic pressure from the federation for the
    Argrathi allies concur ties would hurt to.

    Look at the damage US sanctions caused on Cuba, Iran and north kora?
     
    dupersuper likes this.
  10. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Confederation of Earth
    At the very least, Starfleet should place a warning beacon in orbit, broadcasting a message along the lines of "Make the slightest wrong move on this planet and BINGO, instant 20-year prison sentence".
     
  11. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    I never said "bomb the @$%*# out of" anyone. Just drop a photon torpedo on the "prison" complex, with the yield set high enough to turn the building into a smoking crater, but not high enough for significant collateral damage.
     
  12. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    Moopsy
    That's still bombing them :lol:

    And there is ALWAYS risk of collateral damage as well as risk to the ships dropping the bombs. How many red shirt lives is reve.....sorry punitive expedition worth?

    And the fact how many people should die in the complex? Not just the bosses and implanters but technicians, admin staff and cleaners? And how much blood is needed to satisfy the federation?
     
  13. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    I didn't say it wasn't bombing them. Just that it wasn't bombing the :censored: out of them.
     
  14. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Bad Thoughts
    If we are all weighing in, there is no legitimate reason to attack anything on the planet for O'Brien's punishment.

    But if Benjamin Lafayette Sisko wants to bomb the sh!t out of something, let him. He's the emissary.
     
    JonnyQuest037 likes this.
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    I think sanctions would be more appropriate than anything else.
     
  16. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    Oh, FINE, then.

    *Oddish does an "angry Klingon face", like Worf always gets when Picard won't let him blow something up. :klingon:
     
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Confederation of Earth
    Man, I wish Worf and Shaxs could have met... :klingon: :lol:
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    O'Brien was sentenced for the crime he did commit, however accidentally, and apparently quite according to local law and procedure. Starfleet is supposed to respect local law, up to a limit. Do we see it bombarding Vulcan holy ground for the Vulcan habit of arranging for duels to death for gullible outsiders?

    The warning buoys and flagged travel brochures idea is the sound one. Feeling vengeful ought to be beneath Starfleet and the Federation, even if one of theirs gets maimed or killed.

    This is basically "Justice" redone: Starfleet has been told what the local laws are, from the practical POV of what not to do; a violation committed essentially through carelessness is a violation nevertheless; and the fact that the local laws were so unremarkable and unexceptional resulted in Starfleet not checking on what sort of punishments were associated with them, and their exceptional severity takes them by surprise.

    In "Justice" Picard is quite ready to violate local law. But he hopes his violation will be considered an appeal to the otherwise hard-to-reach Judge, and it indeed is. In "Hard Time", there's no time window for a violation, though, or for any other sort of appeal. But if the local law doesn't cater for those...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Location:
    Kanto, Poké-World
    I'm happy that you have such warm and fuzzy feelings for O'Brien's torturers. Do not expect me to agree.

    My head canon is that the Agrathi, emboldened by the Federation's apparent lack of retaliation, tried the same trick with a Klingon visitor. This proved to be a mistake. As I'm sure you know, Klingons like three things: revenge, bat'leths, and blood wine. The Argathi were not around for the wine.
     
    Mr. Laser Beam and kkt like this.
  20. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Location:
    Seattle
    If Starfleet had been told what the local laws were, why didn't that information trickle down to O'Brien so he could be much more careful or take his leave on Risa instead?