Burnhams surprise at the fall of the Federation so far in the future....illogical?

All Empires throughout history have fallen, no matter how glorious or powerful they were at their peak - it's logical to assume the Federation will at sometime fall too -is Burnhams surprise that it no longer exists nearly millennium into her future illogical? An understandable initial shock but also illogical given her Vulcan upbringing.

 

Like most things in Trek -- it's because the producers and writers wanted it that way. It's just how it is...

 

Ide be shocked to hear everything I know was gone despite the time gap.

Stop clutching at straws

 

I'm more shocked that it's only been gone for a hundred years.

She just missed it by an inch.

 

So would I, but you and I weren't raised by Vulcans to follow the Vulcan way of life (I sure as hell wasn't anyway). As I said in my OP "An understandable initial shock but also illogical given her Vulcan upbringing.".

 

The show left the whole Vulcan thing behind almost immediately. She has been one of the most emotional characters Trek has ever seen. Also we know thanks to Archer that there is still a Federation in the 31st century so it's not a 1000 year gap it's about a 100 year gap and it is perfectly logical to assume that something alive in the 31st is still going in the 32nd

 

Yeah when I said almost a millennium I meant from her time.

 

But unless the temporal cold war was highly classified and even if it was she would probably have access and have read up on it due to her being on a time travel mission then it would be known to her and therefore factor into her logical thinking

 

I think's more about realizing that everything great that humanity and then the aliens who joined up has accomplished was basically erased. All that progress where humans evolved into a better version of ourselves went right down the toilet. Even though things might not be so bad as end times bad, it's still hard to say that the universe isn't in a lesser place because it's pretty hard to get a bunch of differences societies to come together for not just pragmatic reasons but also a more noble vision of exploration and helping each other out.


Jason

 

Were it me, I'd be surprised if ANY remnant is left that far in the future. How many times was the galaxy almost destroyed/eaten/AI's JUST in the few hundred episodes we've seen?

Odds are, one of those, or the many we haven't seen, would be successful eventually.

I mean some AI or tentacle monster is going to destroy ALL LIFE eventually. It's like the plot of every series now!

 

Ya but after the AI kill us they turn into sexy blondes and have babies with us and we make a new earth together. So at least we gat a happy ending

 

It makes sense to us that she shouldn't be surprised. But, Trek has always portrayed Federation citizens as thinking that the Fed is the greatest thing that's ever come along and therefore it must be everlasting. From that viewpoint, we can imagine her shock.
Still, these Federation people really need to be more realistic....

 

The strength of nations might ebb and flow but England and France are both over the 1000 year mark and I'm sure other countries I know less about are too. So it's not unbelievable to think that maybe the federation could last that long in some sort of decent shape

 

Rome lasted 1000 years or so. Most other empires (Persia, Babylon, Greece, France, Britain, Mongolia, and Soviet Russia) lasted far less. So no, I'm not surprised the Federation was gone. Burnham... well, her perspective is her own.

 

Are you telling me France and the UK have not been in the top 5/10 most powerful nations over the last 1000 years

 

Burnham was hoping for 1000 years of backpay, that's all.

 

Not saying they're not powerful, but they're no longer globe spanning empires. The British Empire used to be 25% of the globe, including Canada, India, Austrailia... now, I think they have 3/4 of the British Isles, the Virgin Islands and the Falklands.

 

The queen is still head of Canada and Australia and Union Jack's are still a common site in Canada despite the queen having very little actual power although you get the odd affair like the Withlam dismissal. And anyway look at the US and China it's all about soft power now not colours on the map

 

Logic has not served Burnham well. Her trauma basically got buried and it came back with a vengeance. There is no reason to expect Burnham to react logically.

 

for the last 200, 300 years maybe in case of the UK. they certainly weren't nobodies but not really the global player until the late 17th,early 18th century. heck, they were mere pawns in the chess games of the Houses of Welf and Hohenstaufen for most of the early centuries in the last millennium. English kings were seen as easy hostages to extract ransom money from their more important cousins.