Re-imagined Vader/Kenobi Duel in A New Hope

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by FPAlpha, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    While I think that they are equals I don't think Obi-Wan is in command the entire time.

    While I appreciate the tension of the original scene, it's still one that I do not personally enjoy. This scene isn't the answer, but viewing this scene in light of the prequels highlights just as odd to this scene has stood out to me.

    I don't have a good way to state this but it is a scene that I just find slightly off in the overall narrative of the film.

    That all said, overall I think this scene does misunderstand the fundamental aspect of the scene as two aged masters who practiced that control with every strike. But, there is just something there of highlighting the limits of the original scene that makes me appreciate this fan work even if it doesn't fit the original film.
     
  2. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

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    I think it's kind of OK, and I certainly appreciate the craft that's gone into it. Vader sure looks menacing as hell when he's swinging like that.

    That being said I've never had a problem with the duel in ANH (as it's the original film and remains one of my favourite films of all time), but in retrospect I wouldn't have minded seeing a little more aggression from Vader and Obi Wan, but overall I think the original duel is fine as is.
     
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  3. plynch

    plynch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In '77 it seemed amazing.

    The new, hyperkinetic duals are a mess, visually, as is much of what GL did in the PT. Less is often more. Usually, in fact. But our culture is all about "more." More flashing, more movement, more ships in a space battle till it looks like a CGI just randomly vomited a bunch of ships on the screen. The eye and brain really like something to focus on. And tension and build up are good too.

    Ever go to a local fireworks show? We have a good one. You never know when the next "foomf" is going to signal a launch, and then, how long till it explodes, and . . . what kind? And how loud?

    So I went to an MLB game with fireworks after every, say Thursday night game, or whatever.

    They towed a raft of fireworks into centerfield. It started.

    Bangbangbangbangbangbang for 15 minutes. No let-up. No drama, surprise, just solid noise and lights. It got done. We went, "hnh," and went home."

    Less is often more.
     
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  4. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    x1000.

    Some cannot let go of the video-gamey need to have all characters turned up to 100, instead of realizing that:

    1. Kenobi was older, and he was not going to fight like a 20 or 30 year old, Force powers or not.

    2. As an experienced duelist, he's going to modify his strikes to not only protect himself, but be as efficient as he can be at his age. He does not need to flip and twirl his weapon like a majorette.

    3. The entire approach to this fan-made scene bought into the Lucas-pushed idea that when he shot ANH, the ability to stage complex duels did not really exist and that the characters were an "old man" and a "half-robot" as the excuse for the outcome. I've always said that was BS on his part, since some of the most complex and energetic movie duels of all time were already decades old when he made ANH. All one needs to do is look at 1938's The Adventures of Robin Hood (which he admired, so his statement is even more unbelievable) or The Prisoner of Zenda (both the 1937 and 1952 versions) to see that there was no lack of fast, believable duels in films. It was quite standard.

    4. If Vader was some slow "half-robot," then his sudden speed, different, faster fighting style and aggressive mobility in TESB means Lucas' ANH duel comments really hold no water.

    Someone should hammer your statement into stone and then hurl it at the head of anyone still thinking that one track should be applied to anything beyond The Phantom Menace. Its not the "theme" of Kenobi (beyond that TPM incident, and it was also applicable to Jinn and Maul), or Vader for that matter. I thought it was out of place even in Revenge of the Sith.
     
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  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. Having just a little bit more would have been OK by me, especially in line with even ESB and Rogue One in particular.

    I get that people have different tastes but Wow, the level of hatred is astounding. Fans continue to amaze me at the reactionary stance. It's just a fan production.
     
  6. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It is not hatred, but annoyance; some latter day SW fans are so single-minded on duels in the way TPM presented it (and by association, anything produced after it), that they moan & trash the OT duels, or completely lack the capacity to grasp the fact that all duelists do not fight alike (even Lucas said that), the emotional investment (which obviously influences how a fight unfolds) is not the same, or the intended outcome from either opponent. That is all tossed aside in favor of trying time after time, fan-film after fan-film, YouTube video after YouTube video to push the idea that one style of fighting is "right" and preferrable, and that's often accompanied by the oversused Duel of the Fates. That mindset leads to the idea that the ANH duel was "bad" or "needed" updating in some way.
     
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  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't see the "bad" part of such a mindset. And, even so, that doesn't change the original at all. So, I don't see the problem here. Neither is "right" or "wrong" but simply a matter of preference.

    Honestly, I think this mindset started with Lucas himself, and then you have the PT, Rogue One and such and of course ANH is going to look like an outlier in comparison because Vader comes across as much different from scene to scene.

    I get it-it's not for everyone. Certainly it doesn't fit in the overall flow of ANH. But, as a fan experiment? Harmless.
     
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  8. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think if you really want to update the duel, something more along lines of the Rey vs Kylo Ren duel from The Force Awakens might have been better. It's got the faster pace, but doesn't go quite so over the top.
     
  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think that's a little bit closer, but neither has the type of control, which, for that scene, makes perfect sense. I would want to have each strike from Vader and Obi-Wan be very right, controlled and nearly a hit but with an increase in energy.

    I think there is a balance to be hit between Scene 38 and ANH as it is. Especially in light of how lightsaber dueling evolved in SW.
     
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  10. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Better than that fan edit of ANH that just sped up the footage.
     
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  11. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    It's fun fan wank, and I really enjoyed it on that level. However, I'm glad that this is not the canon version.
     
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