I have a bad feeling the whole DC vs Marvel thing is destined to become politcial.

To me this whole thing was always less than what people pretend much like the Star Trek vs Star Wars but I sense a bad thing coming and it is this. People tried to get people angry at Joker for this reason and people are now talking toxic fan stuff about the Snyder Cut and now Superman is back and it feels like the whole Snyder idea of doing dark edgy stuff which now seems to be associated with that type of fan is what DC is going for.

Then you combine that with a very public goal of more diversity in the MCU and I think it's just a matter of time before the internet see's the pattern and does it's thing. We know also Marvel is not only trying to have more Female leads but even it's heroes often have more natural looks except maybe Thor and Captain America, one who is now gone. Meanwhile DC is all in on Beefcake and Hot Babe. Superman,Aquaman, Shazam and Black Atom look like they live in a gym. Meanwhile the MCU has Andy from Parks and nicest guy in the world in Paul Rudd and second nicest maybe in Tom Holland and prestige actors.

I think the movies will be good on both sides but I do think you will see people trying to make it a issue and try to get clicks by getting people to think that MCU is for liberals and DC is for conservatives. Anyone else worried about this?


Jason

 

Nope, this is a silly worry.

 

I don't know. These online sites know how to keep people coming back for more and they rarely feed of positive energy.

Jason

 

Well, we've already had people claiming last year that Joker was an "incel movie", so in that sense it is happening.

There isn't so much a political debate over MCU v DCEU as there is a clear contrast between competent, well planned, enjoyable and hugely successful movies on one side against a miserable, incoherent mess and failure on the other side.

 

Well, now. The DCEU may have started off that way, but having since produced movies as enormously entertaining as Wonder Woman, Shazam! and Aquaman, it's hardly as bad as all that.

 

I fixed this to make it more objectively accurate.

Of course, which is the enjoyable series and which is the "mess" depends entirely on personal preference.

 

Is there a new definition for the term "political" these days?

 

How could anything dependant on personal preference be objectively accurate?

 

Even if you are talking strictly DCEU DC has had two female led films so that argument seems off. If you add the TV side and all of the DC and Vertigo projects it really goes out the window.

 

Yeah, TV DC is diverse and liberal as fuck.

(And has in fact been the subject of endless political whingeing -- from the conservative side -- as a result.)

 

That's true but Wonder Woman is a movie that is often used as a example of how to do a Female led movie the right way by certain people on the Web. I'm not saying your not going to have diversity or anything like that in the DC. It's just that DC seems very early 2000's or late 90's were the MCU seems to embrace contemporary themes more often. In away it sort continues the same old feeling I think were DC is a very old brand. The first issue of Superman was in 1939 and Marvel came out in the 60's. It's almost in their blood for DC to be old school and traditional were Marvel is more radical.

The tv sides are different when it comes to the Arrowverse but I haven't forgotten Fuck Batman! It will be a cold day in Hell when Spiderman says Fuck Iron Man.

Jason

 

They’re both liberal, so how? Just because conservatives and the alt-right gravitate towards DC doesn’t mean the people behind the scenes are. If and when that becomes an issue, they will clarify.

Superman is about to have a CW series that partly deals with how Republican politics has fucked over Middle America’s growth. That’s enough of a statement from DC.

 

The statement "There isn't so much a political debate over MCU v DCEU as there is a clear contrast between competent and enjoyable movies on one side against an incoherent mess on the other side" is objective.

The conclusion as to which cinematic universe fits which part of that statement is determined entirely by preference.

For example, I would personally apply the condition of "competent and enjoyable movies on one side" to the DCEU and "an incoherent mess on the other side" to the MCU.

 

That's not objective if some people find both to have competent and enjoyable movies.

 

I definitely fall into that group, in the beginning I much preferred the MCU, but Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Birds of Prey did a lot to improve much opinion of the DCEU, and brought it closer to how I feel about the MCU.

 

The two parameters are not mutually exclusive. People can belive both to be competent and enjoyable or both to be incoherent messes. Or people can believe them to both be competently made but not get any enjoyment out of them; or people can find them both to be incoherent messes but still enjoy them a lot - such as myself.

Nothing about that statement is objective.

 

Only after a radical change in direction and new people brought in to manage it. Batman being recast and taken out of the DCEU is hardly a sign of success.

Going forward, DC will be better off making stand alone movies that don't try to be part of broader shared universe and try and emulate the MCU. The success of Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Joker show the merits of this approach.

 

Don't get me wrong, there is a formulaic, production line quality to MCU movies that is perhaps getting a bit stale at this stage. But there is no doubt a detailed plan to tell the Infinity stones saga over the course of a decade & numerous movies all with shared vision was incredibly commercially as well as critically successful and quite an accomplishment.

Contrast that with Warner Bros. wanting a Chris Nolan Superman movie directed by an inferior director, forced to cancel Justice League:Mortal and then in rushing to play catch up with Marvel decided to build a DC cinematic universe from an underperforming, divisive Superman movie which would inevitably share its grim, self serious aesthetics. The sequel having morose Superman fighting a depressed, psychotic, uber violent Barman in the rain says it all.

Objectively speaking, the MCU was more competently planned with a more coherent vision that was successfully implemented compared to the poorly planned DCEU.

 

Hard to argue with any of that.

 

Two of those movies are explicitly part of the shared universe you think DC is moving beyond.