Captain Kirk's Name

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by MAGolding, May 28, 2020.

  1. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As we all know, in TOS Kirk was refered to as James T. Kirk, and his middle name was revealed to be Tiberius in i the TAS episode "Bem" and in Star Trek VI:The Undiscovered Country.

    And as we all know, because of a failure to communicate, the tombstone made by Gary Mitchell for Kirk in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" had an inscription saying:

    "James R. Kirk C. 1277.7 to 1313.7"

    And there have been several different suggestions about the difference in middle initials.

    And to me it seems perfectly obvious that the simpliest explaination is: when Kirk was named James Kirk he was also given more than one middle name. Kirk's middle names included Tiberius and an unknown number of other names, including at least one name that begins with the letter "R" I don't know if that name was Robert, or Rene, or Rudolf, or Radasgast, or whatever, but it began with the letter "R".

    So when Kirk entered Starfleet he decided that the usual version of his name would be "James R. Kirk" and his official signature on documents would be "James R. Kirk". And then on stardate 1313.7 his best friend Gary Mitchell tried to kill him and made a tombstone inscribed with "Jame R. Kirk". But Kirk managed to kill Mitchell, dropping first the tombstone inscribed "James R. Kirk", and then a huge boulder, on Mitchell.

    And then every time that Kirk signed a report "James R. Kirk" or initialed it "J,R.K." he was reminded of that tragic moment.

    And so Kirk filed the required paperwork to choose another one of his middle names to be his official Starfleet one and changed the official form of his Starfleet name to be 'James Tiberius Kirk" and his official Starfleet signature to "James T. Kirk".

    And it seems to me that is a very be simple theory that involves normal behavior.

    Abut a number of people react like it violates laws of physics or something:

    "Nobody ever changes their name!"

    "Nobody has two middle names!"

    "We know that Kirk's name is James Tiberius Kirk, no more, no less!"

    Enclosed is a link to a post about the problems of computer programmers making assumptions about people's names. It list 40 assumptions that computer programmers make and doesn't claim to be exhaustive. It is called "Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names".

    https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/

    Read the list of falsehoods about names. You will find that many things which you believe about names are incorrect.

    My great great great great grandfather Henry Hurst (1771-1834) had a daughter who was baptised as Anne Frances Veronica Hurst in 1801. In 1822 the daughter Anne married my great great great grandfather, Jacob Demuth (1779-1842) of Lancaster, Pennsylvania, as his third wife, and they had nine children, including one of my great great grandfathers. Anne Frances Veronica Hurst Demuth died in 1868 and so was a widow for 26 years. In those 26 years she was listed by several different combinations of her names and initials in legal documents, census records, city directories, etc. Sometimes Frances was used instead of Anne as her first name, which is a much bigger change than changing which middle name to use.

    So in my own family tree I have an example of a real person, who had two middle names, and thus more than one middle name, and who was named with various combinations of names and initials in different documents during their lifetime.

    Here is a somewhat more famous example.

    Major General George Crook (1828-1890) had no middle name according to General George Crook: his Autobiography, by George Crook and Martin F. Schmidt. However, I once made a list of about half a dozen different middle initials attributed to him, and although I forgot some of them here are examples..

    For example, the movie Geronimo (1962) has the character of General George A. Crook, played by Lawrence Dobkin, the director of 'Charlie X", and Ambassador Kell in TNG "The Mind's Eye".

    I remember a rhyme his soldiers were said to have made,beginning:

    "I'd to be a packer, and pack with George F. Crook..."

    And the Wikipedia article on him says:

    And I read that when George Crook entered West Point his name was entered as George W. Crook by mistake, which may have become his official army name for part or all of his career.

    And of course he is said to have had several nicknames given by various Indian groups, such as "Braided Beard", "Grey Fox", "Wolf Chief", and "Three Stars"..

    And a more famous example was born as Hiram Ulysses Grant (1822-1885), whose name became U.S. Grant at West Point due to an error by the congressman who nominated him. Since U.S. stood for "Uncle Sam", Grant became known as "Sam" to his associates. You may have heard of the movie The Horse Soldiers(1959). It has soldiers sing a song mentioning "Ulysses Simpson Grant".

    So I do not believe there is some sort of universal rule that everyone has to use, or be called by, the exact same name for their entire life.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  2. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I do applaud the simplicity of him just having two middle names.
    Very Occam's razor!
     
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  3. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think old Gary just made a mistake when visualizing that tombstone. Even Gods can make errors.
     
  4. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe Gary thought Tiberius was a ridiculous name—might have even ribbed his friend about it—so inscribed James R. Kirk as a final dig at someone he was about to kill.
     
  5. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

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    Good freakin' lord. It's a simple continuity error. :brickwall:
     
  6. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    You do know where the word “fan” comes from, don’t you?
     
  7. Mysterion

    Mysterion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    [extraneous justifications deleted]

    That is NOT the "simplest explanation". The simplest explanation is that it was a mistake, or a continuity error, or just something that hadn't quite been nailed down yet in the early life of the series (like "vulcanians" or UESPA). Multiple paragraphs of mental gymnastic do not a simple explanation make.
     
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  8. Ryan Thomas Riddle

    Ryan Thomas Riddle Vice Admiral Admiral

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    "Where No Man Has Gone Before" takes place in a different timeline/universe. Hence the uniforms, Spock's eyebrows and wearing command gold, and Kirk's middle initial.

    Isn't it obvious?! :nyah:
     
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  9. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    While I concede that this explanation is not impossible, I still prefer the idea that "R" was some sort of inside joke between Mitchell and Kirk from their academy days.

    --Alex
     
  10. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Some novel or other had it that Kirk joked in the Academy that "Racquetball is my middle name!" And thus Gary's creation of the tombstone was a morbid callback to the time when they were buddies.
     
  11. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just this morning, I was writing something up with full-ish names of people I know, just like Gary did in this episode. And this one guy I've known for almost five years was on the list. And I wasn't sure if his middle name was M. or R. I put down M., and then it felt off, so I looked it up, and it turned out to be R. An honest mistake.

    Now, if I was on another planet with massive telekinetic and matter-creating powers, and I was trying to kill this one guy I've known for almost five years, but also decided to construct a tombstone for some elaborate sick joke, I might've used the wrong middle initial, because I wouldn't have the ability to look it up quickly. That seems to be exactly what happens in the episode. An honest mistake.
     
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  12. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was simply a mistake- a human error. Mitchell inscribing the wrong initial on the tombstone called back to Kirk's assertion that he was "a god, but still driven by human frailty" and cleverly foreshadowed that he had quite literally dug his own grave.

    Yeah.
     
  14. Paul755

    Paul755 Commodore Commodore

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    I’m a little surprised they didn’t fix it for TOS-R.
     
  15. DarrenTR1970

    DarrenTR1970 Commodore Commodore

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    It's in the 'My Brother's Keeper' trilogy by Michael Jan Freidman.
    I just finished reading those novels this week.
    It's a bit of a running joke between Mitchell and Kirk from their days at the Academy.
     
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  16. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Why is the world would Kirk wear this to the bridge? If he wanted to show the bridge crew what someone had done to the shirt, wouldn't he choose to carry the shirt to the bridge, while wearing a unaltered shirt?
     
  17. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    No, it doesn’t make sense, but then I’ve always thought “The Practical Joker” was stupid.
     
  18. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He didn't know the shirt said that until after he had it on and somebody told him, I'm sure. And then rather than take time to change, he went to the bridge wearing it to show people.
     
  19. uniderth

    uniderth Commodore Commodore

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    I think the two middle names works best for me. James Tiberius Rubrius Kirk

    It's not a bug, it's a feature.
     
  20. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Kirk's real given name is "Skippy."

    Captain Skippy Kirk, that's right.