Picard...checking privilege?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by RAMA, May 21, 2020.

  1. Shenanigans

    Shenanigans Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2020
    The Romulans weren't mad that Picard didn't save them. Picard was mad that the federation didn't do all they could to help the Romulans. Apart from the Romulans that he evacuated and then abandoned on that planet, I don't think the Romulan people cared about Picard either way.
     
  2. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
  3. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    Actually the Federation is a political union of more than 150 planetary and colony governments under one flag and interstellar foreign policy and Starfleet is the armada, but I'd hardly consider it "humanitarian" except to the extent that Starfleet is almost never seen as being an aggressive and dehumanizing(so to speak) organization and tends to do a lot more good than it does bad. Captain Pike's description in the 2009 film is one of the most mangled, poorly-written definitions of the Federation I've ever heard. ;)
     
    lawman, rahullak and Gary Mitchell like this.
  4. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Location:
    Bulawayo Military Krral
    Exactly-why this was done to him, I have no idea-Picard has nothing to be guilty about. That's not a good plot to happen to him at all.
     
  5. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    The Federation is a militant political union that uses its heavily armed armada to facilitate its imperialistic expansion under the guise of peaceful coexistence and understanding.

    Discuss.

    *And yes, Star Trek is ultimately a show about a bunch of white dudes telling blue, green and brown people what to do and how to do it.
     
    Nyotarules and Sci like this.
  6. JoseNoodles

    JoseNoodles Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Location:
    JoseNoodles
    Looking at the interpretation of Picard is his self-titled show, they present him as a man who maybe grew to reliant on his prestige to get his way. I like how he gets shutdown by that admiral when he starts giving a laundry list of things he needs for his mission, and how Starfleet doesn't acquiesce to his demands when he threatens to resign over the cancelled evacuation of Romulus. However, I don't know if PIC-brand Picard really meshes with TNG Picard. He seems more like a progression of Post-Generations movie Picard, who demonstrated a kind of self-righteous zeal which was at times off-putting and seemed aimed at mostly getting him into phaser shootouts and starship battles. Moreover, Starfleet in PIC seems like a more cynical organization that's a far-cry from the more magnanimous Starfleet of 90s Trek, which is also problematic. It would be nice if the next season dealt with Picard working on a way to return Starfleet to its utopian ideals.
     
  7. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Location:
    Gov Kodos on Mohammed's Radio, WZVN Boston
    Fighting a never ending battle for truth, justice, and economic imperialism!
     
  8. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Location:
    Gov Kodos on Mohammed's Radio, WZVN Boston
    I think there is far more natural progression of Picard from TV to film to TV again so far as his moral grandstanding goes than there was for kirk from TV to film. Kirk is arguable two completely different versions from TV to film compared to Picard.
     
  9. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    I suppose if you put 'some' Romulans in front of each premise you cover off your objection while simultaneously prevent Romulans from being a monoculture.
     
  10. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    But that of course that is a alternate universe that when you look at the effects of time travel was altered all the way back to the Big Bang thus their Federation is a wee bit different. In that one you can even go from cadet to Captain instantly. :)


    Jason
     
  11. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    I agree. You need Picard to feel guilty. Makes more sense though if you have Picard's desire to make amends be something that inspires other to fix their own mistakes and things they are ashamed of. At some point to stay true to the character people need to be inspired by him and not the other way around.

    Jason
     
  12. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Picard and TNG doesn't always mesh well on the surface. It only works if you realize the passage of time has changed the values of the Federation as well. Picard being cursed at for wanting to help someone is something that would not happen on TNG but if you go with the idea that the Federation is more jaded and cynical because of the Dominion War and the Synch attack then it works but of course it also means the writers have to know that Admiral Clancy is the one out of order in that scene. Well she was correct on him doing it in the press but the idea of someone with his status wanting a ship isn't out of order. Granted it's also in line with other Admirals we have seen like Admiral Morrow and the one in First Contact that didn't want the Enterprise to engage the Borg but this does seem to be the first time when fans have sided with the incorrect Admiral over the hero.

    Jason
     
  13. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Why do people see privilege and then immediately start talking about race?

    Woof woof.
     
    Manticore likes this.
  14. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Privilege often involves race but it wouldn't in the Trek universe so it's kind of hard to make the argument when talking about inter-Federation politics. One of the reasons why aliens are often the stand in for such exploration.

    Jason
     
  15. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Location:
    Asheville, NC
    Except that's not how the episode portrayed it. It wasn't one group of Romulans that fit in column A and another group in column B. Both arguments were made by the same character! This is what the senator is arguing in a nutshell.

    "We can take care of ourselves which is why we hate you for leaving us to take care of ourselves!"

    Maybe Nicholas Meyer got it wrong. Maybe he didn't need to blow up Ceti Alpha 6 and kill 20 of Khan's followers including his wife. All he needed for Khan to seek revenge on Kirk was the simple argument of being 'abandoned'. That would make sense in the context of Space Seed where Khan relished the idea of building his empire on a new world, but when Kirk leaves? BETRAYAL!
     
    Pauln6 likes this.
  16. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 1999
    Location:
    USA
    Dramatically, it may have been effective writing for him to be humbled, but not really by privilege but by events. There are problems that can't be easily solved, and that's where a serialized show is more effective than a 45 min solution. Ultimately, he was still a respected former Starfleet officer who accomplished a lot, so maybe he has a grading curve when it comes to results.

    As for the "white" description, I think that comes from just a perceived generalization to sum up what bothers people from an arrogant assumption the Picard believed he had and was shot down at times by some of his past associates, including Admiral Clancy and Riker/Troi.

    RAMA

     
  17. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    You might have people upset Kirk didn't arrest Khan instead of letting him live on that world. I mean if he went to prison lots of people Khan killed would still be alive. Well in theory. The timeline would change creating a very different future but you know what I mean.


    Jason
     
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    Not really, no. As Spock said, "He is an extremely troubled Romulan." You're applying logic to a character who likely had a psychotic break due to the emotional intensity of watching his world destroyed.
    Picard is wrong. Starfleet is wrong and the Romulan government is wrong.
     
    Sci likes this.
  19. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    Self interest is the real villain here. So... Seven is right? Except where she's bent on revenge.
     
    Sci likes this.
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    Self-interest at the expense of others. So Seven is right... and wrong.

    It's almost like this isn't black & white.I know, I was just as shocked as you were. ;)
     
    Nyotarules, Sci and Pauln6 like this.