Game The Most Disliked Cardassian Episode

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Sakonna, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. Sakonna

    Sakonna Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    I'll keep at the final arc for my next save. It's a bridge between higher points on either side in (the already saved) "The Changing Face Of Evil" and "Tacking Into The Wind", but Kira, Odo, and Garak going off to join Damar's resistance in "When It Rains..." is excellent.

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 1: "Past Prologue"
    DS9 Season 2: "The Homecoming"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 2: "The Maquis, Part I"
    DS9 Season 2: "The Maquis, Part II"
    DS9 Season 3: "Destiny"
    DS9 Season 4: "Indiscretion"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Behind The Lines"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    DS9 Season 7: "Til Death Do Us Part"
    DS9 Season 7: "Strange Bedfellows"
    DS9 Season 7: "The Dogs Of War"
    VOY Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 2: "Basics, Part I"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
    VOY Season 5: "Nothing Human"
     
    Farscape One and Seven of Five like this.
  2. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Stupid Sexy Flanders! Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Location:
    Staffordshire, UK
    I'll eliminate The Homecoming, the first part of the awesome Circle trilogy that opened season two.

    I loved Kira's resolve in this as she marches off to rescue Li Nalas. I also love seeing Dukat squirm when he is forced to announce Cardassia's 'shock' at the Bajoran prisoners of war that they knew absolutely nothing about. ;)

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 1: "Past Prologue"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 2: "The Maquis, Part I"
    DS9 Season 2: "The Maquis, Part II"
    DS9 Season 3: "Destiny"
    DS9 Season 4: "Indiscretion"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Behind The Lines"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    DS9 Season 7: "Til Death Do Us Part"
    DS9 Season 7: "Strange Bedfellows"
    DS9 Season 7: "The Dogs Of War"
    VOY Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 2: "Basics, Part I"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
    VOY Season 5: "Nothing Human"
     
    Farscape One and Sakonna like this.
  3. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    Both parts are some of the finest in Trekdom, but

    DS9 Season 2: "The Maquis, Part I"​

    was such a solid setup... on numerous fronts, right down to even discussion of the Federation using atypically stronger tactics (what amounts to terrorism?). And, of course, how awesome Gul Dukat is...


    What remains:

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 1: "Past Prologue"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 2: "The Maquis, Part II"
    DS9 Season 3: "Destiny"
    DS9 Season 4: "Indiscretion"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Behind The Lines"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    DS9 Season 7: "Til Death Do Us Part"
    DS9 Season 7: "Strange Bedfellows"
    DS9 Season 7: "The Dogs Of War"
    VOY Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 2: "Basics, Part I"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
    VOY Season 5: "Nothing Human"
     
    Seven of Five and Sakonna like this.
  4. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    I'll eliminate The Dogs of War next. It's actually my second-favorite episode in the final arc, aside from Tacking Into the Wind. It helps tremendously that (IIRC) we see nothing of Dukat and Winn whatsoever, but the strength of the episode hinges on the strength of the Cardassian Rebellion subplot, the interplay between Kira, Garak, and Damar, and the the final transformation of Damar from a self-loathing man into a reluctant patriot. It's actually amazing how convincingly it's all done considering how limited and low-budget the sets are overall.

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 1: "Past Prologue"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 2: "The Maquis, Part I"
    DS9 Season 3: "Destiny"
    DS9 Season 4: "Indiscretion"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Behind The Lines"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    DS9 Season 7: "Til Death Do Us Part"
    DS9 Season 7: "Strange Bedfellows"
    DS9 Season 7: "The Dogs Of War"
    VOY Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 2: "Basics, Part I"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
    VOY Season 5: "Nothing Human"
     
  5. Sakonna

    Sakonna Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    I think "Destiny" is pretty great. A few more great female Cardassians we only see once! And the refocus on Sisko's role as Emissary was a wise storytelling redirect. Excellent wormhole effects.

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 1: "Past Prologue"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 2: "The Maquis, Part II"
    DS9 Season 4: "Indiscretion"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Behind The Lines"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    DS9 Season 7: "Til Death Do Us Part"
    DS9 Season 7: "Strange Bedfellows"
    VOY Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 2: "Basics, Part I"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
    VOY Season 5: "Nothing Human"
     
    Seven of Five likes this.
  6. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    Hard to take out part one without

    DS9 Season 2: "The Maquis, Part II"​

    Same reasons, it's one (of many) DS9 highlights as a standalone episode and in worldbuilding.

    What remains:

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 1: "Past Prologue"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 4: "Indiscretion"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Behind The Lines"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    DS9 Season 7: "Til Death Do Us Part"
    DS9 Season 7: "Strange Bedfellows"
    VOY Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 2: "Basics, Part I"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
    VOY Season 5: "Nothing Human"
     
  7. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Location:
    Farscape One
    Saving "PAST PROLOGUE". It introduced Garak. I need no other reason.

    What remains:

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 4: "Indiscretion"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Behind The Lines"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    DS9 Season 7: "Til Death Do Us Part"
    DS9 Season 7: "Strange Bedfellows"
    VOY Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 2: "Basics, Part I"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
    VOY Season 5: "Nothing Human"
     
  8. captainkirk

    captainkirk Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Location:
    South Africa
    Nothing Human. An episode with an interesting moral problem. I don't quite buy the idea of needing to create a holographic duplicate of Crell Moset rather than simply adding his research to the Doctor's database, but the episode would be a lot less interesting that way.

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 4: "Indiscretion"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Behind The Lines"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    DS9 Season 7: "Til Death Do Us Part"
    DS9 Season 7: "Strange Bedfellows"
    VOY Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 2: "Basics, Part I"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
     
    Brennyren, Sakonna and Farscape One like this.
  9. frankieteardrop

    frankieteardrop Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2020
    Location:
    PA
    I'll save "Behind the Lines" next. The B-plot with the Defiant loses me a bit (although I love to see Jadzia leading missions), but the shifting dynamics on the station and the unfolding plot to sabotage the minefield are good stuff.

    What's left:

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 4: "Indiscretion"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    DS9 Season 7: "Til Death Do Us Part"
    DS9 Season 7: "Strange Bedfellows"
    VOY Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 2: "Basics, Part I"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
     
    Syn and Sakonna like this.
  10. Sakonna

    Sakonna Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    I've got to send Seska some love! "Basics, Part I" I am ALWAYS singing the praises of Basics. I have seen specifically the last act of this, with all the absurd cliffhangers, about eleventy billion times. There is no other portion of Voyager I have watched more.

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 4: "Indiscretion"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    DS9 Season 7: "Til Death Do Us Part"
    DS9 Season 7: "Strange Bedfellows"
    VOY Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
     
    Seven of Five likes this.
  11. ananta

    ananta Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2020
    Gonna eliminate DS9 “Til Death Do Us Part”. Things started heating up in DS9’s final chapter, and most memorably Ben and Kasidy basically defied the gods to get hitched. Most ominous wedding ever!

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 4: "Indiscretion"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    DS9 Season 7: "Strange Bedfellows"
    VOY Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
     
    Seven of Five and Sakonna like this.
  12. Brennyren

    Brennyren Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Well then, let me save the episode where Seska's arc was launched: "State of Flux." An intriguing mystery, investigated in a thorough and intelligent way by Chakotay and Tuvok (who make excellent foils, btw). We have plenty of internal conflict for Chakotay, nicely played by Beltran. We have the marvelous Martha Hackett in all her scene-stealing glory. We have the great chemistry between the two of them!

    We also have one of my favorite lines in all of Voyager, Chakotay's grouse to Tuvok: "You were working for her. She was working for them. Was anybody on that ship working for me?"

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 4: "Indiscretion"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    DS9 Season 7: "Strange Bedfellows"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
     
  13. Sakonna

    Sakonna Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    The way the story develops after this really takes it down a notch, but, assessed in isolation, the Winn/Dukat/Kira material in "Strange Bedfellows" is AWESOME. The hardest part was selling Winn's turn back to evil, and they NAIL it.

    Such a shame they then screwed that story up in every episode going forward.

    The Cardassian angle in this ep is good as well, Damar realizing the Dominion is becoming bored with the Cardies, and increasingly only have eyes for their sexy new allies.

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 4: "Indiscretion"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
     
  14. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    I'll strike off the list Indiscretion. It's not a flawless episode by any means, but it's a good one. This was probably the peak of Dukat's humanization - which was later completely scuttled by the showrunners unfortunately because there were a few "Dukat did nothing wrong" nutters on usenet. Seriously though, who doesn't love the scene with Dukat getting a spindle stuck in his butt? Also Cyia Batten was honestly my favorite Ziyal.

    TNG Season 6: "Chain Of Command, Part I"
    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
     
  15. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Stupid Sexy Flanders! Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Location:
    Staffordshire, UK
    I'll save Chain of Command, Part One.

    It's not as strong as the following part, yet it does well building towards the cliffhanger, where it was all a setup to get to Picard. The Cardassian presence was more incidental here, so it would be part two they made that wonderful impact.

    I also really like how Jellico comes in and starts changing things up, which seems to rub everyone up the wrong way. :D

    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    VOY Season 2: "Maneuvers"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
     
    Sakonna likes this.
  16. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Location:
    Farscape One
    Initiating evasive "MANEUVERS" to save it from this list.

    I always loved this one. It's always a rewatch for me. The brilliant planning on Seska's part was awesome. Totally pulled the wool over their eyes. And Chakotay got some great moments. Janeway dressing him down at the end... great scene. It really showed that despite being a Starfleet officer, he was still a Maquis at heart because of how he took the rebel route in his solving the issue.

    And that final reveal of Seska on the viewscreen... Beltran totally sold the whole 'privacy under everyone's microscope'.

    Great action, great character beats, great story... among the very best of early VOYAGER.

    (Side note: STAR TREK had a LOT of pregnancies that year. Keiko, Wildman, Seska, Kira (the latter two actually having the actresses pregnant). I used to call that season 'Baby Booming at Warp'.)


    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
     
    frankieteardrop and Sakonna like this.
  17. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Saving DS9 Season 6: "Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night".

    Even though the Cardassians here are bit more a part of the background setting than the protagonists, as the story really focuses on Nerys and Meru, it is a great story about the dilemma's faced by a Bajoran woman, in a "privileged" (not really, of course, and certainly an unwanted) position during the occupation, how she has to juggle her morality and loyalties to make her family survive. And of course it's also a story of Nerys, the proud Bajoran, coming to terms with her mother's past, when she finds out that it isn't quite what she believed it to be. In my view, an episode like this certainly doesn't deserve to a 'most disliked' list till the very end.

    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
    VOY Season 3: "Basics, Part II"
     
    frankieteardrop and Sakonna like this.
  18. Sakonna

    Sakonna Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    I must save the other half of my beloved "Basics"...

    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 4: "Return To Grace"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
     
    Seven of Five likes this.
  19. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Location:
    Farscape One
    I can't believe it stayed this long on this list. "RETURN TO GRACE" gets taken out. Kira and Dukat episodes were always a win, because it was just so damn entertaining. Dukat getting his mojo back and going to take on the Klingons was fun to watch. And Damar first appears here. Amazing how only a few lines of dialogue, done well by a good enough actor, can make them become an integral part of DS9.

    It's also quite awesome.

    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
     
    Sakonna likes this.
  20. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    ^That would have been my next pick, too.

    Eliminating "DS9 Season 6: "Favor The Bold" . A terrific episode, even though the Cardassians themselves don't play a terribly central role here. But while they're mainly here in their capacity as "evil minions of orth..." I mean, "of the Dominion", they're still enjoyable to watch in their interplay with Weyoun and the Founders, and pursuing their own agenda all the while, too.

    TNG Season 7: "Journey's End"
    DS9 Season 2: "Profit And Loss"
    VOY Season 2: "Investigations"
     
    Seven of Five and Sakonna like this.