Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x03 - "The End is the Beginning"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Commander Richard, Feb 4, 2020.

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Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Excellent!

    13.7%
  2. 9

    20.2%
  3. 8

    36.3%
  4. 7

    15.3%
  5. 6

    6.1%
  6. 5

    4.2%
  7. 4

    0.8%
  8. 3

    2.3%
  9. 2

    0.8%
  10. 1 - Terrible!

    0.4%
  1. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Anybody else think that maybe Dahj & Soji's mom isn't real? Like she's a holographic AI that they're talking to and their memories of her are just implanted like the replicants' from Blade Runner?
    I swear in the first episode when Dahj called her that there was a glitch during their conversation like the AI needed a moment to access the correct response.
     
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  2. Yistaan

    Yistaan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They could be some kind of google glass providing all sorts of info, and/or Oh wants to look cool and throw Agnes off her guard.
    Agreed. Super obvious after she lied about Dahj even.
     
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  3. Amaris

    Amaris Guest

    Well! We get some more backstory this episode. We find out how Raffi and Picard are connected. Turns out she worked for him as a Lt. Commander before he resigned his commission. Of course, because he resigned, she lost her position, which lead to things getting worse for her. (Side note: Love the Starfleet uniforms from that time period. Very snazzy).

    It raises a point for me, about how Earth works in the future. I mean, she uses the term "hovel" to describe her home, but it looks nice to me! Does it indicate that she's poor, or am I missing something? We learned from TNG that hunger, inability to be treated for illness, and the need for material wealth is not the same as it was in our time, but how far does that go? I'm curious to explore that.

    So anyway, she's still pissed at Jean Luc, and it's understandable when we find out that in those 14 years he hasn't checked in on her even once, except to see if she can find him a pilot for his covert mission. I'd be a little stung, too. She asks him to leave, but not before telling him she's found him a pilot, a Captain Rios.

    Back on the captured Borg ship we see Hugh! I have to say that Jonathan Del Arco looks great! He's clearly more human now, though he retains a number of Borg artifices. He's the one who has taken Soji under his wing, which pays off when he learns something new from her regarding the Borg, and the Romulans as she speaks with Dr. Ramdha, a former Borg drone who seems to know far more than she should about what is happening around her.

    Back on Earth, Picard's getting ready to leave for his mission. Zhaban and Laris are sending him off when the two former Tal Shiar agents drop Picard to the floor because a split second later there are explosions, and operatives break into the mansion (with Zhaban noting that they deactivated the alarms). It's the same type of Tal Shiar/Zhat Vash operatives that had killed Dahj, and they're after Picard.

    Firstly, I love Zhaban and Laris. They're sweet, kind people who love Picard, and I also love how incredibly, awesomely paranoid they are because that study they were in had more guns than Tackleberry's house (Police Academy reference, kids), but the best thing of all was at the end of the firefight is Dr. Jurati who shows up and with sheer terror shoots the last operative as they tried to ambush the three residents.

    Poor woman, she's clearly horrified, and says "I think it was on stun," and Laris replies that "Romulan weapons don't have a stun setting," which just makes her even more horrified. Have I mentioned how much I love Alison Pill? :lol:

    Back on the Borg cube, Soji begins asking Dr. Ramdha questions as the woman quietly assembled a Romulan mandala from what looks like triangular tarot cards (at least that was my impression, and also I want some). We learn by jumping from the scene on the Borg cube to the scene back at Picard's manor that this is all connected, that the Romulan Zhat Vash fears the cybernetic twins, that they know of the sisters, and that they're supposed to bring destruction.

    Ramdha grabs a disruptor and tries to kill herself but is stopped by Soji. On Earth, the Romulan being interrogated bites down on his suicide capsule and almost gets Zharaban except for some quick thinking by Picard, and so the Romulan operative dissolves in acid as the others stare on in horror.

    On the Borg cube, Soji is trying to talk to her "mom," but since her "mom" clearly lies and says Dahj is okay and has bought a puppy, there's more than meets the eye here. Clearly (IMO) she's some kind of AI or limiting force that keeps Soji or Dahj from knowing too much about what goes on between the other. Quick speculation? Maybe Bruce Maddox is behind that, maybe not, we'll see. She falls asleep, and shortly thereafter Narek shows up to check on her.

    Later Narek meets up with Rizzo, his sister who is hale and healthy back on the ship, and also has her ears back. They talk in conspiratorial whispers.

    Back on Earth, Captain Rios shows up, and Dr. Jurati insists she comes with Picard on his mission, and lists her reasons why, which are adorable and quite honestly good reasons so I say let her come along.

    On the ship, we see Raffi in the pilot's seat, but she's not there to join the mission, she's on her way to Freecloud, which may be where Maddox will be found. I'm not 100% on what that is yet, but we'll find out next week.

    Of course, they end the episode in a very nice way, which I'm not going to say, but it ups the final score by 1 full point because I am a nostalgic person, and easily manipulated, so there.

    Anyway, speaking of scores, this one gets a 9. It was very well done, with bits of action to keep things going, but fills in a lot more data on just how big of a mystery this is in both scope and threat. So far, I think the team behind Picard is hitting doubles and triples, and I am impressed with how smoothly things flow together, and can't wait to see more.
     
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  4. seigezunt

    seigezunt Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Absolutely.
     
  5. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The mother is obviously Control. :)
     
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  6. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Commodore

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    You were pointing out that Picard is not acting like you think he should.

    And Raffi states in a complaint about him not contacting her to say hi, how are you doing, "not because you think I know an off the book pilot with an unregistered starship."

    It's not exactly established that Rios is actually an off the books pilot, or that his ship isn't registered somewhere.
     
  7. Gepard

    Gepard Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You're implicitly arguing that the amount of character work and incident that can be fit into 45 minutes is the amount that any story of any length should have, and a 450 minute story will be that amount of storytelling slowed down by a factor of 10.

    That sounds pretty crazy to me. I mean, there's novels that move at a blistering pace despite being 800 pages long – Shogun comes to mind. To put it another way, if you have to drag your heels to hit novel length, maybe you should have written a short story instead.

    And I know you're going to respond to this observation with one of your patented missing the point nuh-uhs, so don't even bother.
     
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  8. SJGardner

    SJGardner Commodore Commodore

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    I'm beginning to think "Mom" deactivated Soji (or put her to sleep) to prevent her programming from asserting itself, probably learning from the experience of what happened to Dahj. But I have no idea if "she" was protecting her or actually working against her.
     
  9. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    EDIT: A bunch of posts since I started typing this post. This thread moves fast!

    Musiker had some interaction with Picard after 2385, as I said in an earlier post, she's familiar with the 2386 Chateau Picard. Maybe she reached out to him instead of the other way around, but there was some contact.

    As far as her downward spiral after being discharged and her wanting to help Picard but not, she's mad at him but she wants out of the rut she's in. Intel on the Romulans is her way back. And she has a history of substance abuse. What exactly she's used besides "vaping", I don't know. But has anyone here ever known anyone with drug addiction? I have. That's the part I didn't want to talk about before. And I won't go into details here because frankly it's not appropriate. But what I will say is that it can make her angrier at Picard than she would've already been and she'd be willing to help on the La Sirena at the same time because she'll have ups and downs. Going on the La Sirena is an up. Having anything to do with Picard is down. Going on a mission and not hanging out in a trailer is an up, joining Picard's crew is a down.

    Rios, I'd say he's above board. Just because he smokes and has tattoos doesn't mean everything he's doing is illegal. He's helping Picard, no questions asked. He too is of conflicted nature. He wants nothing to do with Starfleet but he's in awe of Picard even if he doesn't want to admit it. He has a tough exterior. Probably tough because he doesn't want anyone to think he's capable of cracking. His last mission in Starfleet might've been too much for him. He does all this tough, macho stuff to make up for it. At least in his mind.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  10. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    If you're interested, there was a whole long discussion of this in the latter part of the comments on the previous episode. You just need to skip ahead to the last several pages.

    Without rehashing all my previous posts on the subject, let it noted that, when you really think about it, pretty much all the dialogue on STAR TREK is anachronistic--and written for modern ears. How contemporary is too contemporary is always going to be a judgement call.

    I'll also point out that the TOS's dialogue tended to be more colloquial than on the latter-day shows. "I'll bet you credits to navy beans." "In a pig's eye!" Etc.

    I actually like that PICARD is getting back to that, as opposed to the occasionally stiff formality of TNG.
     
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  11. It could be a program designed by Maddox to stay connected with them, but still stay hidden. I'm very convinced she's not real.
     
  12. Lakenheath 72

    Lakenheath 72 Commodore Commodore

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    I have seen many discussions about what is being said or seen in these episodes. My opinion on this is this, we are giving depth to what has no depth.

    If depth is sought for, we are shown text from the book Rios is reading:

    "We personalize the All in order to save ourselves from Nothingness; and the only mystery really mysterious is the mystery of suffering.


    Suffering is the path of consciousness, and by it living beings arrive at the possession of self-consciousness. For to possess consciousness of oneself, to possess personality, is to know oneself and to feel oneself distinct from other beings, and this feeling of distinction is only reached through an act of collision, through suffering more or less severe, through the sense of one's own limits. Consciousness of oneself is simply consciousness of one's own limitation. I feel myself when I feel that I am not others; to know and to feel the extent of my being is to know at what point I cease to be, the point beyond which I no longer am.

    And how do we know that we exist if we do not suffer, little or much? How can we turn upon ourselves, acquire reflective consciousness, save by suffering?"

    Being that the text was seen long enough to be read, I would believe that the TPTB are messaging us. How does this text fit in with the themes of the series?
     
  13. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Admiral Admiral

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    Of a show that is approximately TEN HOURS LONG.

    Binge watching certainly seems to have ruined some folks for watching TV.
     
  14. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Title is truth in advertising, the first three episodes definitely felt like they were part of a single pilot episode.

    Vasquez Rocks but we already knew that.


    I have regular eyelids to protect my eyes but I still prefer to wear sunglasses.
     
  15. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Isn't Earth's Sun supposed to be brighter than the Vulcan sun? I know our atmosphere is a lighter color(T'Pol's claim in ENT and daytime shots of Vulcan in Trek 2009 aside) and so maybe our Sun is brighter to Vulcans who work on Earth and spend a lot of time outdoors in the daytime?
     
  16. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Kirk said "Engage!" a lot too. It was never a "Picard only" catchphrase although the current shepherds of Trek seem to think it is. I was actually annoyed Pike NEVER once got to say "Engage!" even in the STD S2 final episode - Pike WAS the character that originated the phrase and he said it every time they went to Warp in TOS - "The Cage" pilot.

    The phrase the Picard character DID originate was: : "Make it so!" but he's yet to voice that phrase in STP.
     
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  17. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Commodore

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    Any experienced binge watcher is perfectly aware that many shows they watch in this day and age, including those which are released weekly, are going to take their sweet time to get into their second acts and adjust their expectations accordingly.
     
  18. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Pike was the first to say: "Engage." Kirk picked up the saying from him. :p
     
  19. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe it is now, but not when the Vulcan evolution required special eye protection that, for instance, no one thought important enough to tell Spock.
     
  20. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's like that Starbucks cup on Game of Thrones. Tamlyn Tomita forgot to take her sunglasses off when they started filming, and nobody noticed.

    They'll fix it later.
     
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