Spoilers Crisis on Infinite Earths Discussion (CW Event Spoiler Thread)

Are they even ON the planet, or floating on alien ships?

The doppelgangers alone will prove a disaster.

 

I've never read the COIE comics so forgive me if this is answered or will be answered. But I find it interesting that the Monitor is so passive, basically quarterbacking, recruiting heroes to do his bidding, rather than taking action directly. If the Monitor is a cosmic god, can't he stop that army of shadows attacking the Quantum Tower? Or better yet, why doesn't the Monitor directly confront the anti-Monitor? It seems odd that the Monitor is having others do his work for him. He just sits back, let's our heroes do all the heavy lifting and then jumps in to tell them what to do next.

Maybe, the Monitor and the anti-Monitor are like matter and anti-matter, if they tried to directly confront each other they would annihilate each other so they need proxies to do their work for them.

It was also a real dick move to pull the heroes out, leaving Oliver alone to die. Why didn't the Monitor also pull Oliver out?

 

Oliver shot an arrow at the Monitor that tazed him or something.

 

First, thank you SO MUCH @Mark_Nguyen for starting this. If I use my phone, the spoiler thing is just too much of a hassle. This makes the discussion so much easier

It's been a little underwhelming fo rme…. feels like a Lankybox "Crisis on a budget" video.

I
was surprised at seeing the Shadow Demons, but like someone said, they seem pretty weak.

The evacuation of Earth 38 seems so ridiculous... in just a few hours, helping 3 billion people escape?

I will wait and see about Oliver. He apparently did something the Monitor didn't forsee, with an impact that surprised him. So I wonder what this all means.

From the preview... It looks like Routh's Superman AND Clark will be featured, so nice that they have that time...but makes me suspicious that Ruth will die.


I am surprised no one has really talked about Talking Dead...er , Crisis Aftermath (which has an In Memoriam segment, like Talking Dead). I really appreciate the show, especially when we see the people behind the show. Like seeing how Marc Guggenheim and Lamonica Garrett being fans, and seeing how that excitement translates in their work.

Oh..so we get to see the origin of the Monitor and anti-Monitor. Surprised there wasn't a joke that it would lead to a new CW show, about the Monitor's teen years.

Also, they said there were like 4.3 BILLION people on Argo CITY. Umm... it looked like an Amish village, so how big was that PLANET? I missed several episodes of Supergirl, so I don't know how big it was supposed to be, but something seems out of whack.

MG also talked about how things have loosened up in regards to character embargoes... they weren't super specific, but Kevin Smith at least let it out that things have "loosened" in regard to that.. so we can still bring out our old arguments about it...but definitely there was SOME limitations for sure at the beginning, and apparently SOME now.


Last thing... MG said "Twitter is Crowd Sourcing the writers room".. so interesting that they pay attention...maybe even monitoring us?

 

I know that. Wasn't that after Monitor had already pulled the other heroes away though?

 

How I saw it was He was removing them one by one and Oliver was presumably about to be teleported away too, but he shot that arrow to temporarily disable him.

 

Episode 2 preview



So they could afford the John Williams theme. Guggenheim said they couldn't.

 

I saw it too....it hit Monitor's armor.

 

Not quite. Novu zapped the others away without asking first, but then paused to say "Oliver! It's time!" and have that brief debate with him, giving Oliver time to hit him with the stun arrow. If he'd just whisked Oliver away peremptorily like he did with everyone else, Oliver would still be alive.

 

Ok. Now THAT is super cool!!!

 

Oh man, that music cue..!

COIE spent years building the hype that this was going to happen, and now they have five episodes to live up to the expectations. For a lot of fans they WILL fail miserably - it's just the nature of things. But I think that once all five (or even all three) episodes are aired, we should be able to sit back and take stock of the story as a whole.

I'm pretty satisfied with a lot of it so far, from Ollie's death scene to Lyla's gathering of everyone (and getting punched by Batwoman for her efforts) to the overall tone of dread, to overlook the super rushed pace and unexpected / unnecessary plot holes, at least for now. I'll wait till all five are aired to render a real verdict, but right now there's hardly enough to make me want to avoid tuning in tonight.

Mark

 

Reposting this from the other thread.
Loved the first episode.
I have to admit, I gave a bit of yelp when they showed Hawk and Jason Todd from Titans, and I loved Burt Ward's appearance.
Oliver giving Mia her Green Arrow costume was a nice passing the torch moment.
At first I thought maybe John's trip to 2046 was going to be a way to age him up, so I was a little surprised he was still a baby when they found him.
I was a little surprised how easy the Shadow Demons were so easy to defeat, but I guess they wanted to give the non-meta heroes a chance against them.
I loved seeing all of the heroes fighting to defend the Quantum Tower.
I was really surprised they actually killed Oliver already, I was expecting him to at least make it to the Arrow episode.
I was happy they cleared up the whole Oliver sacrificing himself for Barry and Kara thing, since apparently some people didn't get that.
So that was the Anti-Monitor behind the door Nash opened. But then that raises the question of why Earth-2 was destroyed if the Anit-Monitor was still locked up and the Crisis hadn't started yet.

 

Anyone else a little confused at the whole side mission to rescue baby Jonathan Kent from other earth future cyborg arm Oliver? I mean what was the point there, exactly? For a second I thought he was going to go back in time to some alternate earth and catch up to them as an adult (and not evil) Alexander Luthor like in the comics...but no, they just grabbed him and booked it.

As for those saying Oliver will be back: no way. That made waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much of a meal of his death to have him come back. Even having Amell as a doppleganger at this point would feel a little cheap. Mia is The Green Arrow, so let her be The Green Arrow.

Calling it right now: Sara Diggle is making a comeback!

 

Yeah, I wasn't real clear on the point of the alternate 2046 side either.

 

They've been coy about whether Routh's Superman was meant to be the same one from Superman Returns, but the use of the music cue seems to imply that he is.

I liked the way it modulated from the Williams theme for Routh-Superman to the Blake Neely theme for Hoechlin-Superman. I always love those cues when Neely (or a collaborator) blends or counterpoints two hero themes like that.

I have low expectations here, because the original CoIE was a complete mess of a story, virtually incoherent and too cluttered and rushed to be really engaging for the most part. So far this has some of the same problems, but less so than the original, so that's an improvement.

The point was to let Sara meet a version of Oliver who last saw her on the Queen's Gambit, giving her and us an opportunity for her to reflect on her journey over the course of the series. Sara's the only lead/hero character other than Oliver who's been part of the franchise since the very first episode (even though she was played by a different actress there), so it was a nice touch to let her look back on her shared history with Oliver before we lost him for good.

 

Stephen is listed as a cast member for CoIE Part 3 and Oliver is mentioned in the synopsis for that episode, so the character will be back even if his Earth-1 self stays dead.

 

I'm thinking that they did the Earth-1 as an easy way to get "another" Oliver right away, and somehow build a story on that. Otherwise there was little reason to go through all the effort of aging Amell up and using the bunker. They could have simply removed Jonathan from the equation right away and had him safe or even (temporarily) killed until the overall resolution.

In the COIE comics (spoilers for the comics I guess):

Spoiler: COIE comic spoilers

Earth-2 Green Arrow is killed almost as an afterthought somewhere in the middle of the story. Earth-1 GA was barely in the story, and neither character was especially popular at the time nor did they have titles of their own, according to Wikipedia. They may take part of this history into account in this adaptation, but then again they're hardly beholden to any given plot points, like the various other major characters who DO die in the comics.

Mark

 

OK, I can understand that now, that makes sense.

 

I have a feeling the 2046 thing was set-up for something later, if not in the Arrow COIE episode then the series finale.

But it's direct placement in the episode plays into the pretty blatant juxtaposition between Oliver and Clark and their roles of fatherhood - which is, by the way, the reason why Clark 'gave up' with the heat vision. "New parent syndrome" is a pretty common trope. I think showing older Oliver (age-appropriate to Mia) with an infant, just adds an extra layer of subtext.

The stuff with Sara was just extra sauce for the goose, as that one dude said.

Yeah, I didn't get it either. I suppose it's fair to assume that its population is dispersed similarly to Earth's and Clark simply chose a small farming community to live to remind him of home.


***Oh and does that clip with '78 Supes confirm that Tommy Boy is gonna kick the bucket?

 

So, again: do we know where to watch which episodes in Canada?