Where did the show go wrong?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by gakelly, May 4, 2019.

  1. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Voyager did have flaws in seasons 1-3 but no worse than other shows. The writers had that habit which they kept during the show to come up with something, like the stupid nine-year Ocampa lifespan and the one-child syndrome and then, when they realized that it didn't work, they just kept on going like "Ah never mind, the viewers won't notice". Another such example were the situation with the shuttles and torpedoes where it was stated from the beginning that Voyager had two shuttles and 38 photon torpedoes. Still, they started to waste them already in the first season, another example of "Ah never mind, the viewers won't notice". But the viewers did notice!

    What they couild have done is to come up with some explanation about a Shuttle And Torpedo Building Team on board the ship. But the constant supply of torpedoes and shuttles despite the constant waste and destruction of those were never explained.

    But as I see it, it got worse in seasons 4-7 when everyting was about Seven and the other characters, except Janeway and The Doctor were shoved in the background. Such a waste!

    Everything was about Seven, her Borg knowledge, Borg technology and so on (and I'm not gonna go into the whole "sexy Seven and the catsuit now) and how Seven could fix antyhing, from the entire warp engine to Janeway's malfunctioning hair-dryer.

    Then we had the TNG thing. They had the possibility to come up with new, exciting species and adventures and really use the characters they had. Instead it was like "Let's bring in the Borg. The viewers love the Borg. I mean, the Borg were finished as a scary villain already in TNG. They should have come up with something new, like Species 8472 or the Voth.

    As for the Maquis, I must state that I'm happy that the writers didn't come up with the same scenario as it was in the horrible series Stargate Universe where there were a constant bickering between the Civilian faction and the Military faction. Chakotay's decision to join Janeway's crew was logic considering the fact that it was their only chance to come home and that 30 Maquis or so were too few to take over the ship.

    However, it could have been done in a different way. B'Elanna was domesticated too soon. It should have taken at least 4-5 episodes before she became the perfect Starfleet Engineer considering her behavior in "Caretaker".
     
  2. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    For my part, I would have liked to see some tense exchanges not between Janeway & Chakotay but rather, at least for a short (while until each crew become aware that according the sitation, it was the only decision to take), between Janeway and her Starfleet crew and Chakotay with his Maquis crew, because we must not forget that even if Janeway made the move to integrates the Maquis into the Starfleet crew, with Chakotay as her second-in-command & the appointment of Paris as helmsman, for a tactical reason and Chakotay accepted it a bit too much easily, IMHO but hey, let's be honest, he had little choice in such a situation (a stay in the vessel's brigs would have been surely offered less pleasant time for him ans his crew than serving, even under a Starfleet captain, their respective crews had the right to not share the same opinion in particular, 1) thinking that this alliance was in total betrayal of their policies and processes, which of of course were inconsistent ; 2) reproaching to Janeway, her decision - taken unilaterally - to respect the Caretaker's wishes and orders the destruction of the array, despite it being their only chance at returning home, even if this gesture saved Kes people in the same time.
     
  3. Alwaystrekkin

    Alwaystrekkin Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Oh holy cow, Voyager did not "go wrong", it lasted seven years, and still has many fans to this day (a popular show on Netflix for example). The 25th Premiere Anniversary is coming up and many Voyager fans are quite excited about that. Of course no show is perfect, but this attempt a ret-conning VOY to be "bad", yikes what a croc. But as usual some folks just want to be negative, whatever, too bad for them!
     
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  4. Brennyren

    Brennyren Commodore Commodore

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    As I've already said, that's not an opinion I share, probably because my opinion of what constituted its major flaws in those seasons seems to differ from your own. The continuity errors are frustrating, but not, for me, a deal-breaker. Also as I've already said, I view its major flaws as the writers'/producers' tendency to prefer the safe (everybody gets along except for the obvious misfits and not-so-hidden traitors) and uninteresting (we have all-powerful replicators and we're the most advanced ship, so there is never any real need to consider compromising ideals for survival).
    Yes, you have made your feelings on the subject plain.
    And I'm sorry that the writers didn't come up with a scenario where them being Maquis made any difference whatsoever. I'm not suggesting that they had to be bickering all the time, but surely the Maquis should have, at the least, had a different perspective in some situations. They were not just rebels, they were also (with a few exceptions) civilians, farmers, colonists, as opposed to career Starfleet officers. They could have played a part in making that ship a home, as opposed to the boring white-on-beigefest it stayed for seven years.
    There's a difference between making common cause and forgetting where you came from.
     
  5. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Chakotay is kind of like Worf. He has idealized his people's culture. Worf is constantly spouting off klingon virtues. He overcompensates, and he doesn't really fit in with Klingons.

    Chakotay has a similar character. He is not stereotypical, but atypical. Chakotay grew up hating his backwards tribal traditions, left his father as soon as he could, and fully embraced modern culture. And then one day(we assume some 20 years later), his father and family are all killed. Chakotay is racked with guilt over this. He blames himself. It's enough to make him resign from Starfleet.

    So now he has been slowly trying to reclaim those things he rejected since childhood. He goes out and gets a tribal tattoo. He takes it very seriously, like Worf, but is really an outsider to his people.
     
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  6. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think that you really hit the nail on the head here.
    I have a similar experience. I was forced to live some of my childhood years outside my home province and that has made me super-patriotic.
     
  7. gakelly

    gakelly Commander Red Shirt

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    Hey everyone! I have a great idea. Let's make a show where a character is jumping back and forth in time!

    Great Idea! Supremely original.
     
  8. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Welcome to the board,

    I don't think most people are attempting to retcon VOY as being "bad" many of the criticisms mentioned here were brought up during the shows first run,
     
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  9. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    It's called "tough love".
     
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  10. gakelly

    gakelly Commander Red Shirt

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    Season 4 is much better than the first 3 seasons.
     
  11. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The entire show was one long, beautifully plotted arc of perfection. It never went wrong, it never did wrong, it never was wrong.
     
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  12. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Calling Doctor Wykoff to isolation room four. ;)
     
  13. gakelly

    gakelly Commander Red Shirt

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    I do think Voyager has the best theme song of all the different ST shows.
     
  14. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    I sense sarcasm.
     
  15. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's as though if someone doesn't feel the show "went wrong," then they must feel it was perfect in every way down to the most minute detail.

    Those are certainly extremes. "Where did ______ go wrong," is like something you would say if your kid became a criminal, or some other disaster.

    So you must chooooooose!!!
    a) disaster
    or
    b) the purest definition of "perfection"

    This is going to be tough; impossible, even.
     
  16. Dukhat

    Dukhat Admiral Admiral

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    It went wrong right out of the starting gate, when UPN decided to make it its flagship show.
     
  17. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Should they have chosen Moesha instead? I don't follow
     
  18. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, it isn't.
    The season lacks something very important.
    Not to mention that the series became an one-character show and the other excellent characters were shoved in the background. Not good!
     
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  19. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Season 4 is the best season, and if not the best the place the best stuff begins :)
     
  20. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    Season 4 is ok but there are a few clunkers in it.

    "Nemesis": Chak has become prejudiced against aliens that we won't see ever again!
    "Scientific Method": Janeway "solves" the problem by taking an insane risk.
    "Waking Moments": People who sleep all the time!! I mean seriously what dimwit came up with this idiotic idea? Who does everything for them? Like feed them for example?