Where did the show go wrong?

Brennyren said:

I can't agree. Voyager had a ton of potential and some very likable characters, but it was never an excellent show. It consistently failed to exploit its unique premise and situation, all too often in favor of doing the kinds of shows that could have appeared on TNG. Bringing the Maquis aboard was pointless if they were immediately going to end up in uniform and -- with a rare few exceptions -- not behaving any differently from Starfleet officers. (Chakotay was especially ill-served here; turning from an angry battle commander into a virtual pacifist overnight. The longer the series ran, the harder it was to believe he'd ever been a rebel.) Putting them in the Delta Quadrant and isolating them from their homes and home society was pointless if they were always going to be a virtuous Starfleet ship and never be changed by their new situation -- see my earlier comments about "Alliances."

Well, yeah. But that was a problem from the very beginning. It didn't start in Season Four, or with Seven, or with Brannon Braga.

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Voyager did have flaws in seasons 1-3 but no worse than other shows. The writers had that habit which they kept during the show to come up with something, like the stupid nine-year Ocampa lifespan and the one-child syndrome and then, when they realized that it didn't work, they just kept on going like "Ah never mind, the viewers won't notice". Another such example were the situation with the shuttles and torpedoes where it was stated from the beginning that Voyager had two shuttles and 38 photon torpedoes. Still, they started to waste them already in the first season, another example of "Ah never mind, the viewers won't notice". But the viewers did notice!

What they couild have done is to come up with some explanation about a Shuttle And Torpedo Building Team on board the ship. But the constant supply of torpedoes and shuttles despite the constant waste and destruction of those were never explained.

But as I see it, it got worse in seasons 4-7 when everyting was about Seven and the other characters, except Janeway and The Doctor were shoved in the background. Such a waste!

Everything was about Seven, her Borg knowledge, Borg technology and so on (and I'm not gonna go into the whole "sexy Seven and the catsuit now) and how Seven could fix antyhing, from the entire warp engine to Janeway's malfunctioning hair-dryer.

Then we had the TNG thing. They had the possibility to come up with new, exciting species and adventures and really use the characters they had. Instead it was like "Let's bring in the Borg. The viewers love the Borg. I mean, the Borg were finished as a scary villain already in TNG. They should have come up with something new, like Species 8472 or the Voth.

As for the Maquis, I must state that I'm happy that the writers didn't come up with the same scenario as it was in the horrible series Stargate Universe where there were a constant bickering between the Civilian faction and the Military faction. Chakotay's decision to join Janeway's crew was logic considering the fact that it was their only chance to come home and that 30 Maquis or so were too few to take over the ship.

However, it could have been done in a different way. B'Elanna was domesticated too soon. It should have taken at least 4-5 episodes before she became the perfect Starfleet Engineer considering her behavior in "Caretaker".

For my part, I would have liked to see some tense exchanges not between Janeway & Chakotay but rather, at least for a short (while until each crew become aware that according the sitation, it was the only decision to take), between Janeway and her Starfleet crew and Chakotay with his Maquis crew, because we must not forget that even if Janeway made the move to integrates the Maquis into the Starfleet crew, with Chakotay as her second-in-command & the appointment of Paris as helmsman, for a tactical reason and Chakotay accepted it a bit too much easily, IMHO but hey, let's be honest, he had little choice in such a situation (a stay in the vessel's brigs would have been surely offered less pleasant time for him ans his crew than serving, even under a Starfleet captain, their respective crews had the right to not share the same opinion in particular, 1) thinking that this alliance was in total betrayal of their policies and processes, which of of course were inconsistent ; 2) reproaching to Janeway, her decision - taken unilaterally - to respect the Caretaker's wishes and orders the destruction of the array, despite it being their only chance at returning home, even if this gesture saved Kes people in the same time.

Oh holy cow, Voyager did not "go wrong", it lasted seven years, and still has many fans to this day (a popular show on Netflix for example). The 25th Premiere Anniversary is coming up and many Voyager fans are quite excited about that. Of course no show is perfect, but this attempt a ret-conning VOY to be "bad", yikes what a croc. But as usual some folks just want to be negative, whatever, too bad for them!

Lynx said:

Voyager did have flaws in seasons 1-3 but no worse than other shows.

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As I've already said, that's not an opinion I share, probably because my opinion of what constituted its major flaws in those seasons seems to differ from your own. The continuity errors are frustrating, but not, for me, a deal-breaker. Also as I've already said, I view its major flaws as the writers'/producers' tendency to prefer the safe (everybody gets along except for the obvious misfits and not-so-hidden traitors) and uninteresting (we have all-powerful replicators and we're the most advanced ship, so there is never any real need to consider compromising ideals for survival).

But as I see it, it got worse in seasons 4-7 when everyting was about Seven and the other characters, except Janeway and The Doctor were shoved in the background. Such a waste!

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Yes, you have made your feelings on the subject plain.

As for the Maquis, I must state that I'm happy that the writers didn't come up with the same scenario as it was in the horrible series Stargate Universe where there were a constant bickering between the Civilian faction and the Military faction.

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And I'm sorry that the writers didn't come up with a scenario where them being Maquis made any difference whatsoever. I'm not suggesting that they had to be bickering all the time, but surely the Maquis should have, at the least, had a different perspective in some situations. They were not just rebels, they were also (with a few exceptions) civilians, farmers, colonists, as opposed to career Starfleet officers. They could have played a part in making that ship a home, as opposed to the boring white-on-beigefest it stayed for seven years.

Chakotay's decision to join Janeway's crew was logic considering the fact that it was their only chance to come home and that 30 Maquis or so were too few to take over the ship.

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There's a difference between making common cause and forgetting where you came from.

Discofan said:

I don't see why they made such a cliché of Chakotay. Why does he keep reminding us that he's a native American? Like when he thought that Tuvok had made the bows and arrows specifically for him!! Why would anybody think that? I mean Saru, for example, speaks of his Kelpian nature once in a while but that's nothing compared to Chakotay! "Hey, my people do this!" "Hey, my people don't believe in this" etc... When he gives a house warming gift to Seven... it's a... "Dream Catcher" of course!!! Even though I am told these are only meant for children!!

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Chakotay is kind of like Worf. He has idealized his people's culture. Worf is constantly spouting off klingon virtues. He overcompensates, and he doesn't really fit in with Klingons.

Chakotay has a similar character. He is not stereotypical, but atypical. Chakotay grew up hating his backwards tribal traditions, left his father as soon as he could, and fully embraced modern culture. And then one day(we assume some 20 years later), his father and family are all killed. Chakotay is racked with guilt over this. He blames himself. It's enough to make him resign from Starfleet.

So now he has been slowly trying to reclaim those things he rejected since childhood. He goes out and gets a tribal tattoo. He takes it very seriously, like Worf, but is really an outsider to his people.

Prax said:

Chakotay is kind of like Worf. He has idealized his people's culture. Worf is constantly spouting off klingon virtues. He overcompensates, and he doesn't really fit in with Klingons.

Chakotay has a similar character. He is not stereotypical, but atypical. Chakotay grew up hating his backwards tribal traditions, left his father as soon as he could, and fully embraced modern culture. And then one day(we assume some 20 years later), his father and family are all killed. Chakotay is racked with guilt over this. He blames himself. It's enough to make him resign from Starfleet.

So now he has been slowly trying to reclaim those things he rejected since childhood. He goes out and gets a tribal tattoo. He takes it very seriously, like Worf, but is really an outsider to his people.

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I think that you really hit the nail on the head here.
I have a similar experience. I was forced to live some of my childhood years outside my home province and that has made me super-patriotic.

Before and After
Hey everyone! I have a great idea. Let's make a show where a character is jumping back and forth in time!

Great Idea! Supremely original.

Alwaystrekkin said:

Oh holy cow, Voyager did not "go wrong", it lasted seven years, and still has many fans to this day (a popular show on Netflix for example). The 25th Premiere Anniversary is coming up and many Voyager fans are quite excited about that. Of course no show is perfect, but this attempt a ret-conning VOY to be "bad", yikes what a croc. But as usual some folks just want to be negative, whatever, too bad for them!

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Welcome to the board,

I don't think most people are attempting to retcon VOY as being "bad" many of the criticisms mentioned here were brought up during the shows first run,

MacLeod said:

Welcome to the board,

I don't think most people are attempting to retcon VOY as being "bad" many of the criticisms mentioned here were brought up during the shows first run,

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It's called "tough love".

Season 4 is much better than the first 3 seasons.

The entire show was one long, beautifully plotted arc of perfection. It never went wrong, it never did wrong, it never was wrong.

teacake said:

The entire show was one long, beautifully plotted arc of perfection. It never went wrong, it never did wrong, it never was wrong.

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Calling Doctor Wykoff to isolation room four.

I do think Voyager has the best theme song of all the different ST shows.

teacake said:

The entire show was one long, beautifully plotted arc of perfection. It never went wrong, it never did wrong, it never was wrong.

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I sense sarcasm.

It's as though if someone doesn't feel the show "went wrong," then they must feel it was perfect in every way down to the most minute detail.

Those are certainly extremes. "Where did ______ go wrong," is like something you would say if your kid became a criminal, or some other disaster.

So you must chooooooose!!!
a) disaster
or
b) the purest definition of "perfection"

This is going to be tough; impossible, even.

It went wrong right out of the starting gate, when UPN decided to make it its flagship show.

Should they have chosen Moesha instead? I don't follow

gakelly said:

Season 4 is much better than the first 3 seasons.

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No, it isn't.
The season lacks something very important.
Not to mention that the series became an one-character show and the other excellent characters were shoved in the background. Not good!

Season 4 is the best season, and if not the best the place the best stuff begins

Season 4 is ok but there are a few clunkers in it.

"Nemesis": Chak has become prejudiced against aliens that we won't see ever again!
"Scientific Method": Janeway "solves" the problem by taking an insane risk.
"Waking Moments": People who sleep all the time!! I mean seriously what dimwit came up with this idiotic idea? Who does everything for them? Like feed them for example?