Spoilers Rosa grade and discussion thread

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by The Nth Doctor, Oct 20, 2018.

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How do you rate Rosa?

  1. Oh, brilliant!

    34.3%
  2. 9

    20.2%
  3. 8

    24.2%
  4. 7

    9.1%
  5. 6

    4.0%
  6. 5

    4.0%
  7. 4

    1.0%
  8. 3

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 2

    2.0%
  10. Rubbish

    1.0%
  1. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Admiral Admiral

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    The word is often used in a derogatory way about Indians, Sri Lankan people and anyone from the Indian subcontinent. I’ve even heard it used to describe Egyptians. Racists are frequently dumb, uneducated SOBs.
     
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  2. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Moddin' Admiral

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    One of the main points of the episode was showing the ugliness of racism, the villain was supposed to reflect that. Having things randomly change because “time energy” feels like a cop out and is actually a convoluted excuse since it has never happened before. Based on past episodes, it’s always aliens or some rando. And what other reason did he need? Racism isn’t rational, well thought out or coherent, it’s idiots who hate whole groups for reasons that only occur to their broken brains. It’s really not about him anyway, it’s about Rosa and that era which are done brilliantly.
     
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  3. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Admiral Admiral

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    The bus I'm on smells of fish paste.

    Just thought I'd mention it...
     
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  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    You just described a Dalek.


    I know. This was driven home in the days after the Sept. 11 attacks. Some racists killed a Sikh gas station operator because they were too damn stupid to know the difference between a Sikh and a Wahhabist. Or rather, they didn't care. The tragedy was just their excuse to murder a brown person.
     
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  5. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You definitely need a villain. It would be lame for history to go of course for no reason at all. (Voyager's anyone?! No thanks!) Then you're fixing things that no one broke!

    I guess it could've been to fix a mistake they caused, but that's kind of lame too. Lots of work just to get back to where it should've been. We kind of got that anyway. And, agreeing with someone who said that aspect wore on a bit!

    But, this type of story boxes them in. Yeah, if he was a true badass, he'd have just gone back, killed Rosa, and that's that. End of story. But, you can't have that happen, so he's neutered.

    I don't know how you do this type of story without neutering the villain. In Timeless, they pretty much just didn't care. The bad guys would go back in time and cause havoc. The good guys would attempt to minimize said havoc, and keep history generally on the right track, but there would be changes. I don't think DW will go that route! So, they're boxed in.
     
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  6. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    Sadly, Indians in India use it to slur Pakistanis

    Yeah, a rascist trying to undo the civil rights movement didn’t need much more explanation.
     
  7. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Moddin' Admiral

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    I’m sure the alt-right or whatever bigots like to call themselves would love access to a time machine to stop some things they consider to be mistakes.
     
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  8. matthunter

    matthunter Admiral Admiral

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    Shame they wouldn't just use it to migrate back to the 50s, since they think they were so great.

    Of course, there's probably an ironic story in the making of how some did, and the 50s folk lynched 'em for being too different.
     
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  9. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Moddin' Admiral

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    The Twilight Zone is coming back, an idea like that could work well in that format.
     
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  10. Csalem

    Csalem Commodore Commodore

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    This has now been updated and episode 2 consolidated at 8.67m and AI of 82.
     
  11. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd argue less on the "too many stinkers", and more on the "stories that treaded old ground." As even decent a lot of the episodes were, Capaldi's run was basically a re-run of Smith's.
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Maybe Krasko is the last white man?

    Which is bizarre, since the last human being is a white woman, and the tochlophane we saw, after the carriage was opened up, were also white.

    So it could not be as clearly about white and black after all.

    He said that this is where it "started" to go wrong, so maybe 59 centuries later it's not about white humans first, it's about humans first, as aliens and humans keep interbreeding and the cultures keep glomming, until no one celebrates Christmas anymore.

    The political acceptance of Black people in the 20th century, lead to the acceptance aliens in the 40th century, and the end of humanity in the 79th century, because Cassandra was not the last human, despite her insistence.
     
  13. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Moddin' Admiral

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    I think it’s better if he’s simply just a bigot. There’s nothing special or unique about him, just the latest in a long line of people who want to hold back progress and resent the whole world for not listening to their evil. It doesn’t matter if they’re from the 1860s, 1950s, 2018 or the 79th century, it’s all the same.
     
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  14. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Admiral Admiral

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    Which would be a major problem regarding the Christmas Specials...
     
  15. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A very current, very appropriate episode written for OUR times, despite being an almost purely historical one. Its pretty faultless in terms of its depiction of the era, the feeling of oppression for the non-whites and the rebellious decision that Rosa Parks did make.

    I can't possibly comment further on the positives, because everyone did cover them. However, I do have some issues with it, which preclude it from being an absolute great episode.

    The bus interaction between the Doctor and her companions in front of the driver himself was rather awkward, and if I was the driver, I'd be very suspicious indeed. The reason why Yaz was allowed to sit on the Whites section was never followed up on. The time-travelling baddie, as miniscule as he was intended to be in effect, I still rather wish he was further characterized, maybe even played better. The last one was the most important take-away for me, because I thought this was a good chance to, perhaps, make a recurring villain for this Doctor, kinda like the Monk, though not a Time Lord, for sure. I didn't like him.

    Beyond those, I largely enjoyed this episode. Its obviously the best of the series, thus far, and excluding the previous series two-part finale, the best overall episode in a long time. I'm glad Doctor Who can still keep going strong, and fresh after all these years.
     
  16. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Moddin' Admiral

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    Christmas in the future could just be reduced to certain aspects like gift giving and such. It’s already lost most of its religious context already and has drastically changed over the centuries. It may even go back to drunken ominsexual orgies one day, featuring the return of Capt. Jack who is running the lubricant water park.
     
  17. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's one Christmas celebration I wouldn't say Humbug to.
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What did they call it in the future?

    Although... Don't forget Space Station Nerva... The thousands of humans that were not eaten by the Wirnn, skipped 15 centuries, after the sun turned into a baby frying bastard, who struck out into space to spread their old fashioned beliefs to the 40thish century.

    Christmas probably came back with a vengeance?
     
  19. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Moddin' Admiral

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    Xmas, they call it Xmas.

    At a certain point, any sexual feeling disappears and it becomes a marvel of physics and the flexibility of the human body.
     
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  20. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Of course, at that point I imagine enough alcohol is involved that the only thing anyone's thinking is "shit, this feels good."