Disagreeing with the Guidelines and choosing not to make fan films in part because of them are not mutually exclusive activities. In fact, they go hand-in-hand. Can't imagine that Cawley would @#$% talk the Guidelines, though, because "don't bite hand that feeds you" and all. Now that STC is done, however, it seems like Vic is a bit more ready to say stuff about the Guidelines, though...
Didn't say that they were. Making fan films is also not a requirement. CBS has laid it out, end of story.
End of what story? I'm criticizing what they laid out, and I've stated in the past that I see value in discussing the Guidelines even if CBS never chooses to change them. Don't want to talk about it? Then don't engage. Simple.
Well, as long as you acknowledge that they won't change them. I just am wondering what the value of this discussion is as far as fan films goes. I mean, I could still make fan films if I wanted to. They were always a gamble as far as potential C&D and legal action.
I don't speak for CBS, and I can't read their minds, so I can't honestly say that they won't change them, even if I believe that it's the most probable outcome. I've stated what I think are the benefits of discussing the Guidelines before, in this very thread. If you're truly interested, you can go back and find it. One thing that the Axanar lawsuit showed us is that CBS can request an injunction to stop you from producing a fan film. So, hypothetically speaking, you may not be able to make a fan film, unless you plan to do so in secret. True, but before the Guidelines people weren't aware it was a gamble because they'd seen fan films that did everything the Guidelines say not to and not get punished for it, like STC, ST:Renegades, Prelude to Axanar, New Voyages, et cetera. They thought the proverbial Mt. Vesuvius was dormant, and in their ignorance had no fear.
There is no answer to your questions other than the guidelines. Your continual discussions do not advance the conversation at all. If I knew how to insert the "beating a dead horse" emoji I would put it here.
When fans create Non-Licensed content (and raise outside funds in the thousands to million+ dollar range, yes, it hurts BOTH the integrity of CBS licensing, and overall long term profitability. Peters COULD have approached CBS/Paramount with his idea and asked for a license to do the project. ^^^ That's how it done. Is it easy to 'break in' and get a meeting? No, it's not, but that's how the process works - you pitch an idea tom the IP rights holder, and they ultimately say "Yes" and you then hammer out a contract, specifying what each side is responsible for, any monies to be paid, length of time to complete/deliver, etc. and move forward - OR - the IP rights holder says, "No, not interested." Alec Peters tried to START A FOR PROFIT BUSINESS using the Star Trek IP to obtain crowdfunding. He also sold UNLICENSED Star Trek IP related products and had a revenue stream coming in from that. If CBS/Paramount lets that slide; the ACTUAL Star Trek license holders (IE those companies that HAVE gone through the legitimate licensing process, and are paying money to CBS/Paramount for being able to market their Star Trek related items) would start questioning boy WHY they are doing so, since CBS/Paramount doesn't seem to care that others are doing unlicensed projects and getting money for doing so; or ask for a reduction, etc. ^^^ This is why said Guidelines are broad and cover all fan film situations (not just Peters and Axanar). I can guarantee they would rather ST:PII and STC had not gotten thousands of dollars for their fan projects; and employing SAG members who had worked on Star Trek projects before; but at least they WEREN'T claiming that the Star Trek IP was public domain because GR had never properly conferred Star Trek rights to Paramount/CBS - or further that they "Could do it 'better' than the professionals, and for less money too.." <-- Something Peters WAS claiming. Peters situation got to the point where CBS/Paramount (after telling him at a Convention meeting that they were not okay with Axanar raising the funds it did; strongly suggested he stop <-- Yes, Peters claims they didn't tell him anything of the sort, but seriously in a credibility contest, I will take the word of the rights holder over a person who has already shown he is dishonest in raising and using funds as he outlines in various crowdfunding campaigns.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TLDR: - CBS put out the Guidelines BECAUSE of the situation created with the Crowdfunding campaigns and other illegal revenue streams created by Alec Peters. - They were broad because CBS was not happy about the fact that many Star Trek fan film groups were raising large sums and hiring current and former professionals to work on fan projects. - Yes, the situation was affecting CBS long term ability to properly license and profit from the Star Trek IP which they own; hence the reason for the actions they took to correct that
Axamonitor claims to the contrary: http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=summary_of_the_lawsuit#injunction However, perhaps this was misreported. If so, please let me know.
I do. Of course CBS can. Yeah, I'm calling nonsense on this one. Every fan film community I have been a part of have been very much aware that there was always the potential for legal action.
Much as I hate to get drawn into this yet again, you are absolutely right. Every single person making fanfilms pre-guidelines knew legal action was a risk. It was frequently discussed in the community and we all did everything we could to stay in the good graces of the studio.
I would agree that anyone engaged in selling merchandise without a license could do damage to the bottom line of CBS, and they have an obligation to their shareholders to put a stop to it. However, I don't see any evidence that fan films alone, especially when identified as such, cause any real harm to either the reputation or pocketbooks of CBS. They can and should crack down on shady crowdfunding practices that eat into the market for their merchandise, but that's conflating separate issues. I do agree that Peters could and should have attempted to obtain licenses, give that he was involved in producing merch. However, is anyone aware of any independent production company getting a license from CBS for fictional franchise in the history of the company? Nobody here is defending the actions of Alec Peters. That assumes the motivations justify every part of the Guidelines. In my opinion, they don't. Axanar may have goaded them on, but the Guidelines had a much wider target than just Axanar. They were meant to bring an end to fan series and long-form fan films. Good question. (* Does some Googling... *) I stand correct, the motion was denied: https://www.loeb.com/publications-i...-20170103-paramountpicturesvaxanarproductions So they could only issue an injunction after the findings of a jury. Thus, if you finished before the jury trial is over, you could avoid the injunction. I doubt this was ever going to happen in Axanar's case, though. That said, you'd have burned through a sizable amount of your crowdfunding just to get before a judge to decide on the motion, so it's kind of a moot point. There's a big difference between knowing that there is a risk and knowing the extent of that risk. There is a risk you could die in a plane crash. People know this but fly on planes all the time because the risk seems so small it will never happen to them. If there was suddenly an accident that led you to believe that planes were significantly less safe than everybody thought, especially if you could make the same trip by car or bus, would you fly on one?
The risk of getting immediately sued is negligible, since CBS have shown time and time again that they always choose reaching out and ASKING the project to cease whatever the offending action was. It's just that every fan project (except Axanar) complied when asked. Hence, Axanar was the only one to ever get sued
At a certain point you realize that some come not to discuss, but to pontificate and force their opinions down everyone's throats regardless or whether that was the subject of the discussion or not, and whom are singularly incapable of conceding a single point no matter how well proven, because they are more interested in being "right" than being factually correct. Once noting that you may realize the futility in engaging in such pointlessly circular debate. As Shaw said, "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." May i suggest we climb out of the sty and leave whomever wants to wallow in the muck to do so at our backs?
I'm reminded of why the Bagginses were regarded as "respectable": you always knew what they were going to say without having to bother to ask the question. This strikes me as a good time to use The Button.
Here's the trailer and link to the fanfilm titled, "Torment of Destiny". Got to love the attention to detail for these fanfilms. https://www.stnv.de/en/4x11_torment_of_destiny.php https://www.tripadvisor.com/Locatio...nal_Series_Set_Tour-Ticonderoga_New_York.html A shame we'll never see this fanfilm.