Doctor Simon Tarses, USS Aventine

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Shamrock Holmes, Jan 23, 2018.

?

How common is it for non-Command Officers to come 'up from the ranks'?

  1. Rare (No allowance for prior learning, attend full 4YR+ Program as Civilians so rarely done)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Limited (Prior Learning is Credited against the regular program, but still uncommon))

    12.5%
  3. Common (Enough Crewmen take the opportunity that there are dedicated schools/programs)

    62.5%
  4. Regular (Usual career path for crewmen for academic/leadership inclinations)

    25.0%
  1. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    A 'one shot' canon character that has been given greater development (particularly as he makes the jump from enlisted to officer is Simon Tarses.

    His only canon appearance in The Drumhead (supported by a reference in the pre-TrekLit novel Infiltrator) suggest that he was/would be removed from Starfleet. However, other pre-TrekLit sources suggest that he serviced a suspension and returned to the E-D for a time, then was sponsered/recommended/encouraged to attend the Academy by Captain Picard and returns to the E-D as an ensign (MB suggests as a nurse, but science officer is also possible given he's never referred to as such). Between 2371 and 2376, he returns to Starfleet (Medical) Academy and qualifies as a doctor (specialising in nano-tech/cybernetics & genitronics) and is posted to DS9 (I) as a staff physician (and briefly Acting CMO), and within the year he was transferred to USS Aventine as CMO.

    At this point he is believed to be around 32-33 Earth Years old and holds the rank of Lieutenant after 14-15 Earth Years service.

    My question is: How common is the above (minus the suspension) likely to be for non-Command officers (engineers, doctors, scientists) to 'come up from the ranks' rather than entering as civilians.
     
  2. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, some doctors that we've seen (McCoy, Crusher, Bashir) were commissioned as officers from the get-go. That's the way it works in the military - doctors join up, and are given officer ranks, without having to go to the service academies. My dad, for example, joined the Army Medical Corps and was immediately commissioned as a Captain. He didn't go to West Point - he was given a commission at O-3 level automatically.

    I'm sure that Starfleet does things in a similar manner. True, we've seen some doctors (like McCoy and Bashir) who did attend Starfleet Academy, although there's no flat-out proof all Starfleet doctors do this.

    Tarses, OTOH, was enlisted, though I'm sure when he got his medical degree - and completed whatever "punishment" Starfleet deemed appropriate - he also went through the same system. So that's why he's a Lieutenant now.

    As for others, such as engineers and scientists: They can enlist in Starfleet, like Tarses did, but if they want to become officers, they probably are required to attend the Academy.
     
  3. flandry84

    flandry84 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And anyone who had been posted to the Enterprise was by definition an excellent young prospect.So his rapid rise through the ranks shouldn’t be a surprise.Also given his treatment by Admiral Satie a little positive discrimination may have come his way.
     
  4. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would say fairly common. Crewman Darwin on Voyager passed up a commission to sign on with that ship, before being murdered by Lon Suder.
     
  5. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    I've always assumed that Bashir attended Starfleet Medical Academy (tho RDM suggested that he attended both Starfleet Academy (ie Command School) and a (civilian) medical school in that order (which seems particularly unlikely).

    At least some time at the Academy for all officers seems likely, but seems plausible that prior enlisted could skip at least some of the 'indoctrination' and 'knowledge of the service' classes and potentially a good chunk of the practical classes in their specialism. Perhaps leaving something more like OCS than a full 4-6 year program (Tarses for instance qualified as doctor and did 'OCS' in no more than five years, I suspect 'upgrading' as engineer or science officer would take even less.)
     
  6. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Commodore Commodore

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    And then we had Dr. Pulaski who held the rank of Commander, but in Where Silence Has Lease was stated as not being a bridge officer unlike Dr. Crusher.
     
  7. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm pretty sure we've seen other characters who were introduced as enlisted crewmen on one of the shows, but then popped up in the books as an officer.
     
  8. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    McCoy actually didn't go to the Academy in TOS, this is established a few times, most notably in The Ultimate Computer where he needed the term "dunsel" explained to him. Trek XI does show him attending the Academy, but that's just one more reason why that movie is so silly.
     
  9. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Vice Admiral Moderator

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    As far as engineers go, I seem to recall that part of Scotty's backstory was that he came up through the enlisted ranks, but I don't remember if this was actually established in canon, or was from some non-canon source.

    Rand is probably the most prominent example of this, although she isn't an engineer, doctor or scientist... but I think she is still non-Command?
     
  10. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, she eventually did become XO of the Excelsior.
     
  11. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    That Scotty started his career as an able crewman is non-canon (from various comics), however we do know that he spent time on freighters and most of their crew are definately enlisted not officers.

    A couple of comics suggest this, however her grey uniform (and LTJG in TUC, vis (Lieutenant) Commander in Flashback) suggest that she's non-Command and the second or third officer at best.

    Darien Wallace of the E-D is probably the next best example. He was a no-rank Crewman for his first two years on the Enterprise (assigned to operations, usually environmental/life support but appeared to have some knowledge of warp systems, cybernetics and transporters, and occassionally did shifts with the security team), in 2366 he qualified as a flight controller (possibly on a temporary secondment to the USS Seaquest) and was promoted to the rank of ensign* and in 2370 he was promoted to lieutenant.

    * This suggests that promotion to officer is possible without attending the Academy, at least for non-Command personnel.
     
  12. tenmei

    tenmei Commodore Commodore

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    There's more than a year between Tarses arriving on DS9 (c. 2376) and starting to serve on the Aventine (c. 2381).

    If he was a nurse - and a Lieutenant - in 2371. 'Indistinguishable From Magic' suggests that serving nurses can do a booster course (via correspondence study, presumably) to become doctors and serve as Chief Medical Officer (but this might make more sense in IFM taking place following the Destiny Trilogy and a possible shortage of experienced individuals, though something similar could have been implemented over the couse of the Dominion War).
     
  13. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    Tarses was already a doctor when he arrived on DS9 (I), so the gap between his time on DS9 and service on Aventine isn't the question, but rather whether he was a nurse or a medical student or something else (probably a science officer) on the E-D shortly before it's destruction on the way to becoming a medical officer and whether we think that this is a common career path or not.

    Honestly, regardless of which option you favour, I think the most interesting note is that Tarses apparently skipped the rank of Ensign (and potentially LTJG) before qualifying as a doctor, especially as rookie nurses are generally IIRC depicted as Ensigns. So is this an error (it's worth noting that both of LT Tarses appearances don't require him to be more than an Ensign) or does 'prior service' give you a one to two grade 'bump' after commissioning (to highlight that you aren't really a 'rookie')?
     
  14. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Flashback definitely seems to treat her as the XO, she's handing out work assignments to the officers Tuvok shared his quarters with, and later when Tuvok objects to Sulu's orders, Rand is the one who reprimands him and relieves him of duty.
     
  15. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He may have intended to simply take a quick Starfleet medical program to qualify, but feeling an obligation to stick around and keep (little brother from another mother) Jim out of trouble changed his plans.
     
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  16. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    She does seem to be the Duty Officer/Officer of the Watch for Gamma Shift, but that doesn't mean she's the XO (traditionally the XO seems to be on Alpha and/or Beta rather than Gamma) though she could still be 2O or 3O.

    That totally makes sense to me. Probably took on extra research assignments or something to 'justify' remaining in San Francisco rather than shipping out on schedule.
     
  17. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    According to Memory Beta, Rand was the communications officer and team leader for Gamma Shift, and cites The Starfleet Academy game novelization, The Sundered, War Dragons, and StarTrek.com as the sources.
     
  18. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    A complication is that she wears different rank insignia in TUC (LTJG) compared to Flashback (LTCDR). However, she is never identified as a Lieutenant (JG or otherwise) in TUC so we may ignore that if we wish especially as she was referred to a Commander in dialogue in Flashback.

    It is perhaps desirable for us to do so, as otherwise she would be outranked by Science Officer Dimitri Valtane who wore LTCDR insignia in both appearances. However, this action by wardrobe may contradicted by the treatment of the character on screen - he is referred to as "Dmitri" by ENSIGN Tuvok and apparently rooms with the junior officers/bridge crew rather than having his own quarters, both point to him being roughly a peer of Tuvok (perhaps a LTJG due to slightly longer time in service) rather than him being a LTCDR (which would likely make him Asst Science Officer or Science Officer.
     
  19. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    To be fair, the only time Tuvok actually addressed him as "Dmitri" was when he was trying to convince him to abandon his post just prior to its explosion, which apparently killed him. And as that was after repeated attempts at saying "Mr. Valtane" and not getting his cooperation, Tuvok switching to his first name was more likely an attempt to get his attention, rather than evidence regarding what the relationship terms were between the two characters.
     
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  20. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    Even referring to him as "Mister Valtane" rather than "Commander Valtane" or even "sir" doesn't undermine the idea that Valtane is a peer of Tuvok rather than a superior officer. Nor does the idea that Valtane is Tuvok's bunkmate.

    Honestly, the only thing about the character (rather than imfamously inconsistent TUC uniform) is that they cast an actor in his 30s to play the character (suggesting that the character is a similar age) whereas even most of the Lieutenant rank characters introduced during the same production era (LaForge, Worf, Yar, Dax, Bashir) were all mid to late 20s.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018