Why were the Maquis conscripted but not Kes/Neelix?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by φ of π, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Seven was more independent. She would have been more than qualified to wear a Starfleet uniform (because of all the Starfleet officers the Borg had assimilated) but she just chose not to.

    And even so, after she was cut off from the Borg, Seven's medical needs required a unique uniform (i.e. the catsuits) designed by the EMH. So in the early days, she couldn't have worn a Starfleet uniform anyway. She'd have to wait until her body adjusted to being human again...I guess Seven just got used to the catsuits and decided she liked them better, even when she didn't need them anymore.

    That said, I'm curious as to what Jeri Ryan thought of all this. I wonder if Jeri herself ever wanted Seven to start "going Starfleet". Or what she thought of the catsuits.
     
  2. φ of π

    φ of π Captain Captain

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    She could have worn a jacket over her catsuit, like what Torres wore when Roxann Dawson was pregnant.
     
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  3. WarpTenLizard

    WarpTenLizard Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A uniform over her catsuit would make sense. But just a jacket over a catsuit is something only David Bowie can pull off.
     
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  4. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :lol:
     
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  5. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Chakotay said that line to Seska and another Maquis in "PARALLAX", the first hour long episode of the series.
     
  6. Takeru

    Takeru Space Police Commodore

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    Why? Do the catsuits lose their healing powers when worn under a uniform? She could have worn a uniform right from the start, there was no in story reason why she didn't.
     
  7. jaime

    jaime Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I vaguely remember it was some kind of sensor thing that linked to sickbay. Presumably it also helped sort out her necrotic Borg organic parts, and it’s clearly just covering some of her remaining Borg tech...the costume hints at this with the under corset. For all we know, it’s literally holding her limbs in place early on, and in some ways it’s upposed to be just a utilitarian covering. She wouldn’t give a monkeys about appearance, and certainly wouldn’t want to wear the uniform of her ‘captors’ as she sees them. The Doctor is either part pervert (likely) or again doesn’t see the point in anything more than a utilitarian skin covering (also likely...he does an aesthetic job on her face and hair, but he’s a doctor, not a tailor...his aesthetics are about the form of a body. He’s never even given himself holographic hair, as Picardo himself noted.)
    In character terms, not wearing a uniform makes more sense. Whether it needs to be space babe is a production question.
    I don’t think the uniform even takes out the space babe question, there’s plenty of discussion around all the nonstandard uniformed female characters in Trek, that always turn into a ‘she looks sexier with the uniform’ discussion at some point. I think some of us may just find uniforms sexy...
    Outside of the narrative, you are replacing Kes, who did not wear a uniform. The thing about a uniform is, they don’t differentiate. Here’s this new character, she’s going to refresh the show...why put her in duty regs? Visually you are losing Kes, so you need a different texture in there. Not to mention designers love to have something to do...why just pull Daxs old uniforms out of the store and stitch Jeri’s name in after some tailoring?
    Again...does it have to be shiney silver space babe?
    But then we look at other things in VOY, Captain Proton, the Delta Flyer....VOY wears its pulp on its sleeve a lot of the time (even Banjoman, the 37s, etc hearten back to this Golden Age of SF era, and someof the stories and villains more so...Hirogen, Malon and Vidiians are all very pulp SF concepts.) so in some ways..yes. It was always going to be Space Babe. (It doesn’t hurt pulling in the teen audience either.)
    The fact they overtly reference this and play with it so much in the narrative helps balance it out. (Of course Seven is the singer in ww2 holoparis, it’s just another classic Hollywood archetype...of course she’s the blonde with a heart of gold, and the scientist, and the metaphorical daughter of the lead, all for exactly the same reason...but she’s also smarter, stronger, faster and fundamentally less narcissistic than most other characters, but she’s arrogant because of her Borg nature, and naive in many ways.)
    I gave up Voyager originally about the time she joined, but since returning to the fold, I think it deserves more credit. Sevens appearance is part of Voyagers Golden Age Subtext.
     
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  8. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe they just thought it would be too bulky and uncomfortable, wearing one uniform over another one?
     
  9. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

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    Neelix "claimed" a lot of things. I don't want to call him a liar.....okay, I do want to call him a liar
     
  10. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

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    And still be a full member of the crew? I would say no. However, a more interesting question would be, shouldn't there have been some Maquis who refused to become crew members? Realistically, there should have been at least some.
     
  11. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Instead of the EMH, imagine Dr. Lewis Zimmerman. What would he give Seven to wear?
     
  12. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, there wouldn't, because the Maquis will all do what Chakotay says. He says they all wear the uniform, so they do.
     
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  13. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

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    So they're all just automatons who obey him without question? Seems a little odd for a rebel outfit like the Maquis.
     
  14. jaime

    jaime Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What was their alternative? Somewhat ripe Maquis civvies with no where to wash them? They would what, live in the brig for 75 years?
    And rebels by definition rebel against something. They don’t rebel against everything. The Maquis/Federation distinction is utterly moot in the Delta Quadrant.
     
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  15. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

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    They could have served in some other function other than becoming full on Starfleet, something that was anathema to many of them. They could have asked to be left off at some M class planet, although I concede that wouldn't have been something too palatable to anyone from the Alpha Quadrant, especially if they had family back home.

    My overall point is that Maquis members were by definition, non-conformists and anti-authority. The idea that every single one of them on Voyager just fell in lockstep behind Chakotay, is unrealistic. There should have been some that chose not to comply. The writers and producers obviously had different ideas so here we are.
     
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  16. Herbert

    Herbert Commodore Commodore

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    Human feelings and emotions being what they are don't necessarily make anything moot. All that emotional baggage just gone in an instant? Yeah, okay
    And regarding your point about them not rebelling against everything, I agree. However, just being a Maquis implies a certain mindset, and that mindset is not necessarily one that respects Starfleet authority. One of the problems that I have with Voyager is that they tended to gloss over that whole Maquis integration with the crew. Yes, there was some tension at first but I don't feel like they ever explored that the way it should have been explored. It would have led to some interesting stories which would have been good since the first couple seasons of Voyager are pretty dull.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  17. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maquis integration was was explored in various ways throughout season 1 and 2. There's the initial dispute with B'elanna, then we have Seska, her actions in "Prime Factors," and later, her secretly aiding the Kazon. We also have the episode "Learning Curve" which is about Maquis learning to adjust. There's the story of Sudor in a couple of episodes, and also the ongoing story of Jonas, who is secretly aiding Seska.

    These are all former Maquis, and the consequences of them joining a Starfleet ship. The Maquis' enemies were Cardassians, not humans, nor Starfleet. Their Captain(Chakotay) became top man on Voyager, then their engineer became Chief Engineer.

    I'd imagine they were rather pleased with this.
    If anything, there should have been more conflict from Starfleet, as they are always the ones with emotional issues over the Maquis...but they are also loyal to their captain.

     
  18. ItIsGreen

    ItIsGreen Captain Captain

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    K'ehlyr would like a word.
     
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  19. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Zimmerman did have a holographic assistant (Haley). Looking at Memory Alpha, she wore purple. Sort of a tunic top (not too clingy) over a knee length skirt and matching stockings.

    You're welcome :)
     
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  20. WarpTenLizard

    WarpTenLizard Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I wouldn't call K'Ehlyr's outfit a "catsuit," more of a jumpsuit.