Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x10 - "Despite Yourself"

Earlier you said you have to know what happened in the mirror universe Enterprise episodes to understand this episode. I'm watching Discovery with my wife who has not watched any other Star Trek in her life and she knew what was going on and was not confused. The fact that there is a ship that previously went to the mirror universe without the spore drive is all a person needs to know. The extra details around that ship are superfluous to the story and only adds colour to us Trekkies who have seen every minute of the franchise.

 

Just gonna ditto that I know people who are new to Star Trek, barely have any idea what Enterprise is, and absolutely had no trouble understanding Defiant as a plot point. Generally, right, and I know it's a bold claim in 2018, but generally people are fairly smart and capable of following plots.

 

You can also add southerners from the US who are largely vilified due to a geographical location.

 

I personally think Tilly is the least photogenic lead since DeForrest back in TOS, and it feels a bit notable because usually the leads are shiny. Whether that’s because Hollywood, or because Idealised future, well that’s a different convo. To clarify, I don’t really look at heavy alien make-up leads, though I didn’t fancy Neelix either.
Commenting on the leads appearance seems to be OK if it’s all positive, and I am pretty sure, somewhere out there, there are people all gooey eyed (I said eyes.) about Ash or Lorca or Stamets. Tilly seems to have her admirers out in force atm.
Me...I laugh at the jokes that arise from her character, but she seems to be pretty much an annoying comic relief character. Which puts her back in the Neelix box.
My previous ‘least photogenic since De’ holders include The Doctor, Chakotay, Miles O’Brien...the TNG crew were pretty much all photogenic. And they all have their salivating fanbases too I am sure.
It’s a thing with TV and film actors and actresses, has been since before they had sound. As long as no one is actually full on nasty about it, I don’t see what the point is. This is a job where in many cases ‘attractiveness’ is often part of the job (or you get lumped in as ‘character actor’ and people having ‘leading man’ ‘leading lady’ looks is definitely a thing.) so *shrug*
I actually think L’rell is prettier in or out or make-up, and I don’t even like the new Klingons.

It is quite telling that some of the stills on twitter and stuff often run a beauty pass on shots with Tilly in. But that’s society for you.

None of which is really a comment on the actress, just Trek casting traditions really. I haven’t really seen enough of her to judge her acting (as a viewer with limited acting knowledge) but am not a fan of Tilly.

As a totally aside, did Culbertson actor really call himself and Rapp ‘Space Poufs’in The after show? I was flicking through to see the preview, and that (including him pronouncing the word wrong) took me by surprise but my ears may have tricked me. That show is a mess of noise after all.

 

It’s gonna be the mind Palace thing from Sherlock in Voqs head isn’t it. She’s gonna mind meld him.

 

...and they usually still cast English for those last two groups.

 

^^^ See, I love it. You disagreed with me in a respectful way. We see things a little differently. Ultimately, for me, it's truly the personality that is the most attractive as cliche as that sounds. Looks are mostly subjective. But she is my type, looks a lot like my wife with the blonde hair and all. Mirror universe Tilly acts like my wife too. I suppose the attraction may lie there.

Do people really feel she is comparable to Neelix? Dude was totally cringeworthy. Worst character in the franchise IMHO.

 

I think I clearly looked away from the screen at the wrong time and missed something.
I find Latif amusing as a lead in DSC...an American show. He’s paler than some of my family and must really fuck with peoples Dulux colour chart of people’s of the world over there. He seems like a local boy done good from my perspective, but I will probably find out he’s from Yorkshire or something. Still. Marina occasionally got the hometown accent slipped in, and O’Brien and Bashir represented a whole nation or four. Bless em.

 

It's pretty rare for someone to be admonished just for making a comment on a celebrity's attractiveness as a whole in a positive manner. That usually requires one to be completely tone deaf about the subject matter and say something inappropriate, like say the thread is about how Jane Doe was admitted to the hospital and someone comes along to say "Oh, that's too bad, she's so hot." Or to objectify them and reduce them down to a single body part. But if someone in the context of this episode made an offhand remark about how MU Tilly is attractive, and didn't make it the subject of nineteen consecutive posts or the only thing they had to contribute, I doubt anyone would care.

There's a difference between that and making mean-spirited remarks about an actress's appearance, and making that your primary issue to comment on, and bringing it up over and over again. That's not acceptable. And that what you were asked to stop doing.

So spare us the Thomas Paine routine. You're not a brave rebel fighting the good fight for freedom, you're fighting to repeatedly make fun of a woman's appearance without being called on it and asked to stop.

Yes, whatever happened to infinite diversity in infinite combinations? Apparently it does not apply to anyone with an average body type in a rail thin Hollywood world. Or any kind of skin imperfection. Or any other superficial bullshit which apparently is way more important than discussing the content of the episode to some people.

Why is it that the people who most frequently drag out the IDIC slogan are those who are preaching the exact opposite? It's almost always the people mocking an actress's appearance, or upset about "SJW's" and "snowflakes" and their agenda introducing more LGBTQ characters or women or people of color into the mix. It's cloaking yourself in the language of inclusiveness and open-mindedness while practicing and preaching neither.

Now I'm not saying you specifically are doing the things I mentioned above, but you're carrying water for someone who was, so it's almost as bad.

Also, I don't really appreciate the tactic of saying you've received an infraction when you haven't in order to make it look like you're bravely standing up to THE MAN. We can see your profile and that you haven't received any infractions. Nor is it cool to assert that people here aren't smart just because they don't conform to your view of right and wrong.

 

I don’t know if anyone else has compared her to Neelix, but she’s going through very similar development from a worse starting point from my perspective. Neelix a lot of the time was all about pissing people off to get the laughs (which Tilly does too) or just being the comic relief ‘everyman’ character. He gets proper development later, so maybe she will too. They are also verbose as a character trait (which I get accused of, but then, I am not a character in Trek.) and serve mainly as foils (Neelix/Tuvok, Tilly/Burnham/Everyone) Who then end up friends with those fools through some means (Tilly gets accepted fast by Stamets etc, Neelix has to be totally tortured first. Then he gets some dance steps at the end.) Even this Captain Killy stuff is played for laughs, when it could be much more. We’ll see I guess.

Never underestimate the ‘that character reminds me of the mrs’ (or mr) Effect. Or the possible inverse. In my case Tilly reminds me more of my mother.

 

Either they amped it in the writing room for allegory reasons, or Burnham glossed over things. The Terran Empire is diverse but stratified usually when we see it. Maybe they will address it, but Evil Empires are En Vogue. I shouldn’t have capitalised that. It makes it sound like brief nineties pop sensation.

 

Tried to PM you this but either couldn't or didn't know how, I appreciate your stance on the above. I won't get into specifics, if you want to we can take it to PMs if that's possible but not really needed as I think we all know where we stand. As for the infraction, I received one years ago for posting pics of myself in the pictures thread that was going on and they were a little too risque I suppose and pissed a mod off. It was here https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/picture-post.129496/page-96
I think it was PTrekgirl or someone like that that gave me the infraction. You actually had a few posts in that thread. I just wanted to clarify that and explain the misunderstanding. Glad that it's gone now though. That's awesome! Not trying to get another btw

Back on topic now?

 

I'm wondering, too, if Ash remembers what he does when Voq is in charge. He knows something is wrong, but can he comprehend what his other self is saying/doing. Talk about split personality!