When is it right to escape the justice of other planets?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by marsh8472, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. marsh8472

    marsh8472 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's happened throughout star trek where someone is convicted of a crime on another planet, the crew do not agree with the judgement and then mount a rescue of the accused.

    Star Trek 6
    TNG "Justice"
    ENT "Detained"
    Voyager "The Chute"
    Voyager "Random Thoughts"
    TNG "The Outcast"
    When is it the correct and not correct to escape the justice of other planets?
     
  2. Tosk

    Tosk Admiral Admiral

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    Don't they pretty much always rescue them*?

    If so then the answer is, it's always right to escape the justice of other planets.

    *Or sometimes prove them innocent with new information.
    But if they weren't able to save them that way, you can bet your ass they would have just beamed them out and gotten out of dodge. ;)
     
  3. marsh8472

    marsh8472 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Maybe they shouldn't be doing that though. Like with this example

    ENT Judgment
    Maybe Archer should have turned himself in. Sure the justice system isn't always fair but does that excuse a prison break?
     
  4. Tosk

    Tosk Admiral Admiral

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    If it was me in the prison, yes. Absolutely. :)
     
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  5. Gul Sengosts

    Gul Sengosts Commander Red Shirt

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    Depends. When Wesley was going to be executed, I thought they had a fair point and we should have respected their customs.
     
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  6. Tosk

    Tosk Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, fuck those flowers.
     
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  7. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    When the other planet's law is stupid, of course.
     
  8. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    In the general case you need to respect the other culture's law. And really Justice is the crew's fault for not doing their homework. Guess the diplomatic recon mission went like this: "So, you really have sex with anyone who asks? Cool! No more questions." But this is the extreme case where it's just not morally reasonable to allow a person to be executed because they crossed a white line. Moral relativism only goes so far.

    Then there's the case like Tribunal where if the other country's law is "You can say anyone is guilty and they die with no recourse".

    In Dax we see them fully respecting another country's legal system. The thing about the show is that if they came across a legal system that was totally reasonable, there wouldn't be much of a story. So every time we have a good story, it's probably the exceptional case where the only reasonable thing is to not follow the law.
     
  9. Gul Sengosts

    Gul Sengosts Commander Red Shirt

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    In case of doubt, I wasn't talking about the justification of killing someone for damaging a greenhouse. Had it been Riker or anyone else, they certainly should have been saved. But Wes? In hindsight, it seems like such an unfortunate mistake, such a sadly missed opportunity to get rid of him.
     
  10. marsh8472

    marsh8472 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  11. LAFR

    LAFR Commander Red Shirt

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    Sounds sort of when 3 dumbass basketball players get arrested in China and have someone get them out before they get put away.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    We also see it in TNG's "A Matter of Perspective" (season three).
     
  13. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Always. It's always right to escape. That's why it's called escape. Escape is always a good thing, when you need it. You shouldn't have to escape, unless you need to, & if you need to... you probably ought to lol

    That said, I'd say there's only two reasons to submit, or allow someone in your party to submit, to outside penal action. #1, when you yourself would subject the guilty party to the same level of punishment (or reasonably similar) for having been proven guilty of the crime. #2, when not submitting would cause significantly more loss of life, in other words, the needs of the many vs the needs of the few

    In the case of the 1st exception, take Riker in A Matter of Perspective. Had he actually committed the murder he was accused of, then yeah, you leave him right there for what he's got coming, because you too would punish that crime

    In the 2nd exception, take Picard in Chain of Command. Sure, he was under orders, but admitting that or mounting some kind of half assed rescue, that could flame up an entire war, which may cost millions of lives? Probably not. Without Jellico, Picard rots in Cardassian prison for a while, at the very least. He actually did commit the crime of infiltrating a Cardassian world & assaulting people there. He's not entirely to blame, but some times you take one for the team. He knew what he was doing was wrong. He did it because he was led to believe a greater wrong was happening there
    Respecting the process, maybe, but if they'd tried to punish him based on their system of guilty until proven innocent, & Picard still thought he might be innocent, I doubt they'd have abandoned Riker to them
     
  14. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    It's a little disconcerting that it seems every other legal system in the galaxy is guilty until proven innocent and admits hearsay as evidence.
     
  15. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Another example of Star Trek's tendency to have high-sounding, pie-in-the-sky ideals...until...the need for drama demands otherwise.
     
  16. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    It's made clear that it's the general policy of Starfleet to obey the laws of other cultures, and in some cases extradition treaties have been cited. But in the real world, in extreme cases you sometimes have to just say "Come on."
     
  17. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You think it's fair that a teenager was going to be put to death for accidentally tripping into a flower bed?
     
  18. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    no... probably just Wesley lol
     
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  19. Gul Sengosts

    Gul Sengosts Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes, again, just Wesley.
     
  20. ralfy

    ralfy Captain Captain

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    Might have to do in some cases with the needs of the many.