Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x05 - "Choose Your Pain"

It kind of makes me wonder how a show like The Walking Dead is so popular. It's the most miserable world one can possibly live in. There is barely a single ray of hope and one wonders how these characters can possibly go on after being kicked in the balls in damn near every episode. What keeps people watching? Is it to see if the end of the show brings the final cure or destruction to the walkers, allowing the survivors to "live happily ever after" and rebuild their world, or is it something more schadenfreude, where we see them living these horrible lives, and we, the viewers think, "Man, I guess my life isn't so bad after all compared to these poor bastards!" I'm an avid watcher of the show and I honestly still don't have the answer to that question.

 

Riiight. Let a collaborator lose to report to the Klingons. Key ingredient to any successful escape plan!

 

And Mudd was never tortured. He openly assisted the Klingons without them ever touching him.

 

He is and he seemed pretty proud of it.

 

"Threat of torture" is enough in this case. Especially for a civilian. Also: You don't know that. He just didn't look like he was tortured recently in his face. But you didn't see under his jacket, did you??

 

Mudd was working with the Klingons against his fellow prisoners. That's a collaborator. It makes him an untrustworthy ally. Revealing plans and including him in the escape would've been foolish. Mudd clearly would not have had their backs during the risky escape if things had gotten difficult, which they did.

 

Wasn't talking about you in that regard. I most certainly do not think you are a troll. I find your posts to be most compelling, in fact. Read what I said carefully.

 

Making stuff up doesn't support your case. He wasn't tortured.

 

Yeah, no. He was forced to comply, by threat of torture.

Unrelated, he really was a dick towards Starfleet officers. In his own words, because he makes them responsible for the war and the torture he faces.

 

I was raised on TNG as a child. I love it till this day. I also love DIS because it’s different.

 

Again: THREAT of torture is already enough. That's why it is forbidden under pretty much any international law.

 

I'm suspecting he's on a redemption arc (which may end in his death), but we'll see. I definitely want to learn more about this guy even though I don't like him, a sign of good writing.

 

The two sides will never agree and quite frankly this thread has been derailed enough with such a pointless discussion.

 

In other words, he sides with the Klingons against the Federation. His rhetoric is the same that the Klingons spout. They have no more obligation to help him than they have to help a Klingon kill them.

 

So, now you're saying he is a collaborator?

 

No. He was "the little guy" who got crushed inbetween.

He was forced to comply. By threat of torture. He had no choice. That is WAY different than willingly complying.

And yes, you DO have a moral obligation to save him, if you have the chance. Hell, people buy back hostages from terror organisation that went HIKING in Afghanistan. Again: Being dumb, or being a dick, or being selfish DOES. NOT. take away your human rights.

 

That's false equivalence, though... for one thing, Mudd wasn't kidnapped at all, he was arrested for trespassing in Klingon space. His collaboration in this case isn't because he "broke," it's because he doesn't WANT to be tortured and the Klingons know this. It's essentially a plea bargain: he helps the Klingons interrogate their prisoners and the Klingons give him something in return (probably his freedom, eventually, seeing how he obviously doesn't spend the rest of his life on that ship).

So you're right when you say Mudd isn't really a "collaborator" as such. "Collaborator" implies he's a POW or participant in the war. Really, he's just a criminal and a snitch, and seeing how he actually DID break the law, Lorca has no moral or legal obligation to rescue him.

The fact that he left him TO THE KLINGONS is what makes this a dick move. Because more likely than not, the Klingons are going to be pissed about the escape and will almost certainly blame Mudd for it. His plea bargain goes out the window, and he's going to be cracking dilithium in Rura Penthe by the end of the week.

 

Since you clearly didn't read it:

Forced collaboration, especially under threat of physical violence, DOES NOT make you a traitor!

 

well said. kudos.

 

Do we actually know he's a prisoner of the Klingons? We only have his word to go by. He might have agreed to pretend to be a prisoner and sit in a cell with Starfleet POWs for intelligence purposes.