Lorca is a coward and murderer, how come he's a Starfleet Captain still??

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Refuge, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Captains who survive destroying their .. crew, who go on to Captain again is a statement.
     
  2. CRM-114

    CRM-114 Captain Captain

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    I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up on the Kobayashi Maru similarities; The difference, of course, is that it played out for real for Lorca. He has to live with the consequences, emotionally and physically. If the story of the Buran is true, it definitely affects his present behavior, beyond his decision not to have his eyes properly treated. Lorca's brashness to the point of recklessness could point to a few things:

    1. Maybe he has a death wish himself, but wants to die a hero. If he lives or dies, if his actions are heroic, the Buran crew didn't die in vain.

    2. Lorca's determination to find anything that would give him an edge over the Klingons is something that may allow him not to have to make that choice again, to make sure that there's never again a "no-win scenario"; not that Lorca will succeed, but he seems like the kind who would die trying.

    3. His refusal to have his vision repaired is not just a form of penance, I think; I tend to believe it's his personal sacrifice for the war. His previous crew died by his actions to keep them from suffering what seemed to him a worse fate than death, and if there's any truth to his claims of slow, painful torture, an instantaneous death by antimatter explosion would be preferable. It could be that, in his mind, if his crew is dead and not coming back and he's responsible, who's he to demand his vision be repaired? It wouldn't change the outcome.

    Considering the show's willingness to not give us every answer to every question, but is actually willing to make us wait, I have no doubt we haven't learned the whole story. I tend to think that Lorca (wisely, to be honest) has kept this from the crew of Discovery. Of course, when Harry Mudd reappears (and he will reappear), this secret will get out, and he will use it to sow disaster for Lorca. This is not over, by any means.
     
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  3. cultcross

    cultcross Postponed for the snooker Moderator

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    ^ Quite. The reference wasn't made just to pass some running time. It was very deliberately 'revealed', and in a way only Lt Tyler will be aware of for future episodes. Not accidental.

    And it's a Trek trope to blow up your own ship. The only difference here is the countdown wasn't dramatically stopped with two seconds to go.
     
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  4. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Lorca could also have had a first officer like Burham who would basically shove her captain into an escape pod against their will to live even if the ship is on self destruct.
     
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  5. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe we was stunned and dragged or transported to a escape pod or something. Surviving may not have been his choice
     
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  6. CRM-114

    CRM-114 Captain Captain

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    While there are some who are understandably put off by Lorca (Saru, Stamets), he is capable of inspiring tremendous loyalty (the late Commander Landry). It seems quite plausible to me that maybe one of his crew chose to save him when he fully expected to die with them. The way things are going on this show, I believe we'll find out. What people are mistaking for not answering questions that arise is really that we have to wait for the answer, something previous Trek series didn't really do much, if at all.

    Wow, actual mystery has come back to Star Trek.
     
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  7. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Do you think it was a ploy to lull a spy into a false confidence?
     
  8. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If Lorca did what has so far been attributed to him it is repulsive. Killing your crew and as Captain not going down with the ship is inexcusable.
     
  9. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It is, but none of us know what exactly happened. As another poster said, Lorca may have intended to go down with his ship but was beamed to an escape pod by a loyal crewmember. I'll criticise Lorca when all the facts are on the table.
     
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  10. CRM-114

    CRM-114 Captain Captain

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    Which is why I say that he may have expected to die with his crew, but didn't for whatever reason. These are all theories being floated out when we really don't know all that happened.

    There's a verse in Proverbs that says, "The first to plead his case seems right, Until another comes and examines him." We've only got part of the story so whatever Lorca did, we haven't heard all of it. What we have heard could be enough to condemn him (morally, if not legally; again, war makes people do things that are unjustifiable otherwise), but for reasons that remain unknown for the time being, they haven't.
     
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  11. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think its pretty obvious there is more to the story than Lorca pissing his pants and running leaving his crew to die.

    My theory is blowing the ship up was Plan B.

    It was likely a situation where he wanted the ship to escape but they needed a diversion. So Lorca took a shuttle hoping the Klingons would chase him in hopes of capturing a Starfleet captain.
    But they didn't take the bait and went for the ship and so they where forced to plan B in self destructing to avoid capture.

    In effect it might have just been a heroic attempt gone wrong and a gamble that just didn't pay off.
     
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  12. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    I think he made the story up on the spot.

    He already knows Tyler is a Klingon.
     
  13. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Vice Admiral Admiral

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    OR picard and his crew are just in a holodeck in a psychiatric hospital :p
     
  14. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well....he was French :P
     
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  15. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. Please explain your theory further.
     
  16. WraithDukat

    WraithDukat Captain Captain

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    For throwing the bug against the wall nearly killing it for absolutely no reason.
     
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  17. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Can someone remember, but I thought Mudd said something about the 'incident' that Lorca was too good to go down with his ship. If Lorca made it up on the spot then how does that explain Mudd?
     
  18. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mudd was always a decent shyster.
     
  19. dahj

    dahj Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Stuart has a name, you're being disrespectful by referring to him as "the bug" :p
     
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  20. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    He had a reason. To hurt Mudd. The thing was also stealing him food.
     
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