Spoilers Wonder Woman - Grading & Discussion

Except he (Clark) didn't.

Henry Cavill's Clark is every bit as altruistic as any other iteration of the character; he's just more nuanced and "real".

 

Because in the majority of "Wonder Woman" lore Hyppolita WAS always wanting to 'protect' Diana - and didn't want her to go into the world of men.

In "Superman" lore Johnathan Kent usually ENCOURAGED Clark Kent to be a force for good and help mankind. MOS was one of the first mainstream versions where Pa Kent was all "Hide! Don't be a hero - protect yourself!"

 

Except, as noted, that is not even remotely close to how the Kents behaved in MoS.

 

Again, I was only talking Johnathan Kent - not Martha; and Jonathan Kent sure as hell behaved that way (He even died because of it.)

 

He's not talking to a 30 year old Superman, he's talking to a 12 year old boy.

If your 12 year old child just ran into a burning building and saved a kitten would you:
a) Say: "Well done , next time you see a burning building just run right in there, be a hero!"
or
b) Would you try to make sure that your child understood the danger of what just transpired despite the lucky outcome?

Jonathan is never saying "don't be a hero", he saying "make sure you get to grow up to be a hero."

 

Which is easy to do when you live in a perfect society and are loved as the only child that society had seen in centuries. The only thing Diana had to worry about when her power manifested itself was Ares finding her. There was some shock from the Amazons, but given that they were in a perfect and loving society, and that Diana was the apple of that society's eye for....I don't recall if she aged slower as a child or not. But that's beside the point, she had the love of the entire society, not just Hippolyta and her aunt. That society would not have feared her, just been momentarily astonished at the shock wave.

Clark on the other hand had his parents love, but grew up in a fearful and often times hateful world. He didn't grow up having society's love, nor did he grow up in the lap of luxury as the child of the ruler of the land. He's pretty much on the opposite end of the spectrum as Princess Diana. Clark grows up seeing the harsh realities of the world first hand. He knows he's different from a younger age. He gets bullied as a child, unlike Diana. Seriously, watch this clip, look at how big the group of kids is that are okay with him being dragged from his truck and harassed.



Based on the bully's comment about "fighting back", I'm guessing Clark has a rep for not fighting back. Look at the hatred in that kids eyes. Look at how many are going along with it. Clark is getting a look at this harsh reality at a much younger age than Princess Diana. He's the target of it. She wasn't. And out of that entire group, only one kid holds out his hand to help Clark up. That's the kind of world Pa Kent is staring down. The bully hates Kent and the others are willing to go along with, or are indifferent to this bullying. If Clark used his powers to push back, that kid would just find a way to turn that against Clark too, especially if Clark showed some power in a moment of anger. "S..s..see!? He's some kind of freak! He's not like us!" It's a microcosm of the world playing out here.

So Clark is more introspective, more stoic, more willing to silently observe the world around him. The "strong, but silent" type. And despite all the shit he had to put up with as a kid. Despite growing up two steps away from being poor. Despite living in a world that's more given over to fear, he is still driven to help people. Without reserve, without hesitation, without fail. That's a Superman that interests me. Not one who delivers Public Service Announcements about statistics regarding the safety of the airline industry.

Sorry about the length of that reply. It just got away from me.

So...about Wonder Woman...Still an awesome film and still one of my favorite super hero movies of all time.

 

Kal El wasn't 12 when Dad decided it was too dangerous for Kal El to save the family dog; and Johnathan Kent DIED as a result. It was clear that was Dad's advice Clark's entire life up to the day Dad died.

 

If my son was invulnerable, you'd bet I'd hope he'd value life enough to save it when possible.

Nothing wrong with adding "just be careful, it's dangerous out there" but stressing that all life is indeed precious.

Wonder Woman certainly showed that, especially while in the trenches and wanting desperately to help every single individual, as impractical as it was.

Watching a hero being heroic is why I watch these movies. And I loved every second of it with Wonder Woman.

 

No, he was just finishing highschool, so 18 tops? Hardly a mature adult

No, it's clear his advice was to wait until he's ready which is what he literally says in the movie...

You know he's invulnerable because he's supposed to be Superman.
Kents don't.
All they know is he's an alien, he's stronger, faster and more resilient, but they didn't shoot him in the face with a shotgun to see just how resilient he is...

 

Clark did that. It's why you saw him save the kids on the bus, and the guys on the platform. Without reservation. Without conversations or arguments where he tells people "This is what *I'm* going to do". He just acts.

When you're not in that situation it's easy to say what you'd do or how you'd act. There's a day-to-day reality that would come with that that you're most likely not prepared to deal with.

BvS tried to explore a little bit of what happens after the day is saved. Flawed as it might have been, I still enjoyed that.

As did MoS and I too loved watching Clark save the kids on the bus, save the guys on the rig, stand up for the young lady in the diner, save the solider and then save every single living creature, including the Amazons, on the face of the Earth. I had a few issues with MoS, Clarks character and heroism weren't one of them.

 

Why does it bother you that people give her most of the credit considering she fucking directed it?[/quote]

For the fact of Jenkins own, clear statements which DigificWriter and others continue to point out, yet you choose to ignore. Moreover, as a relevant example, George Lucas created (with much help) & directed Star Wars, but anyone knowing its true production history affirms that film would not have turned out as released (or at all) without Gary Kurtz. A repeating story in film history, yet for this film, somehow, its overlord time.

Please.

You are reaching.. Many have already pointed to Jenkins' statements (I guess you only listen to her when it suits a certain point of view, right?), and the fact movies are not made in isolation (see the Kurtz example, and last I checked, both Lucas and Kurtz are male). Its up to you if you wish to continue denying the filmmaking process in favor what you're doing.

Funny, because some could not go a page without bringing him up just to attack him.

You misunderstanding by focusing on desaturation, when the overall point of the film was to present a darker world during the war. London was bathed in blue and gray--selling the darkness of the time, not to mention the less than sanitary conditions on the streets. This is not the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman with lighting kits showering entire scenes as if the world was caught round the clock Southern California daylight.

Exactly.

 

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that this was the thread for Wonder Woman. Where can I find it?

 

What, and forget about the men behind it? Haven't their contributions been slighted enough?

 

There's a DCEU topic, but no one gives a shit about that topic.

 

Oh well, I suppose that in the Thor thread there are pages and pages where they discuss about Black Widow right?

 

Don't be so sexist.

 

You can't have a DC related thread without it devolving into a rehash of the Man of Steel debate at some point, it's like in the rules or something.

At least here it's actually somewhat relevant because of the parallels between MoS and WW.

 

MoS is the Tuvix of the DC movies?

 

The mods are suppose to steer conversions back on topic.

Not our fault they do nothing.