Decker's demotion -- unprofessionally handled?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by KelisThePoet, Nov 3, 2016.

  1. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Location:
    Sickbay, dammit.
    Since the bridge crew already knew that Kirk was taking over (Sulu: "He doesn't know"), I'm assuming that there was official communication of the change of command orders. It's not Kirk's fault that Decker was too busy playing in Scotty's sandbox to read his email. ;)
     
    KennyB likes this.
  2. KelisThePoet

    KelisThePoet Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    It's certainly not Kirk's fault, but it is Starfleet Command's fault for stupidly CCing the whole bridge crew on what should have been a private e-mail to the captain, so to speak.
     
  3. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Who knows who sent that message, tho. Perhaps Chekov, Sulu and Uhura are aboard only because Kirk sent them personal summons, with explanations? We don't learn whether they were part of the refit gang or part of the VGer interception gang, but we might surmise the two gangs would be largely separate - Decker himself would be an exception, for quoted reasons.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  4. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2001
    Location:
    Tokyo Japan
    You'd think his boy on the bridge would have sent him a quick SnapChat to warn him.............
     
  5. psCargile

    psCargile Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    GA
    The needs of the story outweigh the needs of an accurate account of organization protocol and courtesy.
     
    Mad Jack Wolfe likes this.
  6. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Hmh? The story here is that Kirk tramples on protocol to get command of the ship, and acts like a bully to boot. He's neither courteous nor particularly organized. And doesn't give a damn.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  7. FreddyE

    FreddyE Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    I`ve recently seen the german dub..there it`s made quite clear that its temporary...they have it worded "...unter vorübergehender Zurückstufung zum Commander" ... "temporary demotion to Commander"
     
  8. KelisThePoet

    KelisThePoet Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    I guess there's nothing definitive, but I think the implication is that Uhura, Chekhov and Sulu are part of Decker's crew. Hence, they're already aboard. And consider Uhura's line, "Ensign, the possibilities of our returning from this mission in one piece may have just doubled," in response to Kirk taking over. That sounds like someone who was going to be part of the mission one way or another.
     
  9. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Apparently nobody making the movie remembered Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea where Admiral Nelson commanded the missions and Captain Crane commanded the submarine.
     
  10. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Brevet may come from the French word for temporary, but a Brevet rank was not temporary but more or less honorary and could last for decades.

    By the way, Admirals don't usually command their flagships, instead retaining the ship's captains to command the flagships while the admirals command their fleets. On a modern aircraft carrier there can be several captains in rank beside the captain who is the commander or captain of the ship.
     
  11. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    But is having the Enteprise commanded by Kirk in this emergency Starfleet's, humanity's , and the Federation's "first, best destiny"?
     
  12. KelisThePoet

    KelisThePoet Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Given that, as Uhura rightly pointed out, the chance of the mission's success went up due to Kirk's unique talent for command, yes.
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    AI Generated Madness
    Once he got a couple of bonehead errors out of the way and got his right hand man back. . ;)
     
  14. Leto_II

    Leto_II Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Location:
    Room 303, The Heart O' The City Hotel
    It's basically the same wording in the English version's dialogue, too:

    KIRK: I'm taking over the center seat, Will.
    DECKER: You're what?
    KIRK: I'm replacing you as Captain of the Enterprise. You'll stay on as Executive Officer. Temporary grade-reduction to Commander.
     
  15. KyleCampbell

    KyleCampbell Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    I would agree with an earlier poster, Kirk didn't need to hold the rank of Captain to take command of Enterprise. In the very next film we are shown that this is not the case. However, it is understood that Kirk took the Enterprise on another five year mission after the Vger incident. It had to do with the fact that the first film after TOS, someone wanted Captain Kirk.
     
  16. Mad Jack Wolfe

    Mad Jack Wolfe Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Kirk nagged (blackmailed?) Admiral Nogura to get command of the Enterprise, then waltzed on board to yank the captain's chair out from under Decker. Decker is then given the scraps of being kicked down to XO while losing a bit of braid. That left Decker more or less in line with the First Officer, just easier to ignore. Not that he wasn't easy to ignore in the first place.

    Kirk saw an opportunity to get the Grey Lady back and no one was going to stand in his way. Who knows how many favours he called in to make it work, but by damn he'd be her captain again. Age, treachery, and a questionable hair weave will always triumph over youth and skill.
     
  17. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Location:
    Scotland
    Kirk was just a dick throughout the entire film.
     
    Mr. Laser Beam and Nerys Myk like this.
  18. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    An XO is the first officer.