Spoilers Wonder Woman - Grading & Discussion

Is that what it is? Poor pitiful men always being shunted aside.

 

Gender has nothing to do with this... reality does; and the reality is that, by Patty Jenkins' own admission, Zack Snyder directly influenced , shaped, and guided her approach to depicting Wonder Woman's story, refining the ideas that she'd brought with her and molding them to fit within and build upon the existing foundation that had been laid by MoS, BvS, and SS.

 

^^
Oh knock it off.

Wonder Woman is a Patty Jenkins movie, just like Man of Steel is a Zack Snyder movie, and not a "Nolan guided, shaped and influenced movie."

Of course all movies are collaborations and different people contribute to it in varying degrees, but the director's the person that makes the choices and shapes the movie, and Zack Snyder is probably the last person who would want people to take away from Patty's accomplishment by highlighting him.

 

Every film ever made is a group effort of some degree of other. So why the scrambling insistence by some to underline in big bold felt tips pen that this director in particular (just like every director of note ever) did not do *everything* single handedly?
For example, I certainly don't see people rushing to point out how Gale Anne Hurd was a huge part of how 'Aliens' and 'Terminator' were shaped every time James Cameron's name comes up in relation to those movies. Strange that.

Patty Jenkins directed Wonder Woman. Says so on the poster. It's her movie. End of discussion.

 

I am very curious how many of you will just as staunchly defend Zack Snyder's credit once Justice League turns out to be awesome...

 

Because Patty Jenkins herself has done so.

 

Except THE BROWNCOATS WERE LITERALLY NOT FIGHTING FOR SLAVERY OR ANYTHING WRONG. Plus, the Alliance is (again, literally) an authoritarian government that does things like try to find ways to mind control people that end up turning people into rabid cannibals.

You know what, screw it. I have better things to do then to argue against such a blatantly wrong interpretation. If nothing else, I've now seen the most incorrect interpretation of something I think I'll ever see in my life.

Well, since it was made after Geoff Johns was put in a position of power, and has Whedon working on it, if the movie is good it won't be because of Snyder. A completely different situation from WW. If JL sucks its because of Snyder. But, since he coul;dn't make a good movie if his life depended on it, logically if the movie is good its because WB reigned in his weird Randian philosphy and made him make a real superhero movie (which, as WW established doesn't mean it will copy the MCU, just that there is less "Let the kids die" and more heroism).

 

I would have replied, but then I remembered that ...

 

If it's awesome, I'll credit the hell out of him.

 

So you felt the need to be redundant? Strange choice, but OK.

I'd credit him with genuine surprise I'd imagine, given his track record thus far.

 

Off topic, but "Let the kids die" is such a shitty thing for Pa Kent to say. If he was the one who shaped Superman's world views, then Superman is bound to become a villain. (but why do we blame Snyder for that line? We don't know who wrote it)

 

That is not actually what he said.

 

I paraphrase, but it's hard to argue that this isn't what he was getting at. He seriously thought that the right thing to do was for Clark to save himself and let children drown.

 

That is not even remotely what he was saying. Clark asked a PHILOSOPHICAL question, and Jonathan gave him a philosophical answer. He wasn't passing judgment on any specific thing or telling Clark not to save people; he was simply responding to Clark's question about whether it was his OBLIGATION to save people just because he had the power to do so.

Claiming that Jonathan told Clark to let people die is completely missing the point of what was actually going on in that conversation and what it was meant to convey about Jonathan and Martha's humanity and the line between keeping their son safe and 'sharing him with the world'.

 

The line was dumb

When Clark ask "What was I supposed to do? Just let them die?"

Pa Kent shouldn't have said "Maybe", but instead "Of course not, but you have to be careful and make sure you aren't seen."

In the end, Pa Kent was arguing that his son's secret was more important than a bus full of soon to be dead kids. Of course he can have that opinion, but that isn't something he can say out loud without him coming off as selfish as hell.

 

Justice League is ALL Snyder.

Snyder basically filmed ALL of JL, Whedon was brought in to polish things up and do reshoots. If JL is bad Whedon can't really do anything about it, if its good I'll admit Snyder did a good job.

Also Whedon will NOT get a Director's credit.

The Director's Guild of America nearly always forbids multiple directors credits in one film. Exceptions are only typically made for pairs of directors who have worked together their entire careers like the Wachowskis, or the Russo brothers who directed Captain America 2.

 

I thought the final shooting script ended up having only like one line from Whedon's?

Going to have to disagree, I thought Buffy was good at the end, and I really enjoyed the final season of Angel. They weren't the best seasons of the series, but they definitely weren't jump the shark moments. Even if they were that wouldn't automatically mean everything he wrote from that point on was bad.

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with Kirk here..... oh, my god I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with Kirk's interpretation of a show, there was no "Confederate apologia" in Firefly, he was simply trying to recreate the feel of an old western. I think it's pretty clear that the Browncoats philosophies and politics were not at all influenced by the Confederates. I've never seen anything in any of Whedon's writing or interviews to make me thing he would ever be pro-Confederacy.

 

You're intentionally misinterpreting that scene, but I'm clearly not going to change your mind with facts.

 

You're trying to make Man of Steel into some deep PHILOSOPHICAL movie when it's not.

It's a big dumb superhero blockbuster which has aliens punching each other through buildings.

 

I disagree with this. Snyder actually usually does go for the deeper then what you expect type of movie. He usually fails, but I respect the effort.