The X-Men Cinematic Universe (General Discussion)

The "precious, misunderstood, baby" crowd. Sure Kylo and Loki commit mass murder on epic scales, torture folks, vent their frustrations for all to see, but they're really just misunderstood. The phenomenon of the audience overlooking the faults and lack of morality of villains, and instead empathizing and sympathizing with them.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWoobie

People empathize with Magneto in the comics and IRL because he has a cause and he fights for that cause when others won't or don't. Which would be the Avengers and the Inhumans. Something Marvel has gone out of it's way in recent years to highlight. Only the X-Men care about the state of Mutants and Magneto is still one of the most powerful. But no one overlooks all the terrible things Magneto does in the name of his cause.

Compared to Loki; who committed patricide, nearly committed genocide against his own race, killed hundreds on Earth and wanted to kill more, just so he could have a place to rule and be a king.

 

It doesn't help that the movies themselves keep having Magneto get away again and again rather than let him suffer for his acts.

And they fail to properly show the Human side of the matter, instead of focusing just on Mutants and acting like they're all innocents and Humans are wrong to be afraid.

X-Men is the rare instance wherein their fear and prejudice actually makes some sense, unfortunately they do nothing with this interesting premise.

 

Yeah, after X-Men Apocalypse, Magneto walking away just didn't make any sense. Then again, most things in Apocalypse don't make sense. They had a great set up to explore how humanity reacts to mutants in the brave new world post-DOFP 1973. The X-kids in the mall and theater scene would've been a great addition to the movie. Instead, we get a bunch of trite about how Mystique is such a hero and inspiration. Yuck.

 

Xavier really should have left Magneto in DOFP and telepathically frozen him so the authorities at the White House could have him. He didn't deserve mercy there.

Honestly, all this talk of their "great friendship" and it turns out they just knew each other for a few months and that was that.

 

Simon Kinberg is in talks to write and direct the next X-Men movie, rumored to be a re-telling of Dark Phoenix. Yay?

 

Hopefully it works out just like Orci and Star Trek Beyond.

 

Simon Kinberg is the man who wrote X3. Which also had the Dark Phoenix. I can't stand to see him screw it up a second time. Especially if it turns out to be another Mystique movie, masquerading as an X-Men film.

 

Just because The Last Stand 's take on the Dark Phoenix Saga wasn't to your liking doesn't mean it was "screwed up".

People really need to stop equating "new"/"different" with "wrong".

You also don't have to see Supernova, but to decry it and the possibility of Kinberg directing it before you even know anything concrete about it is just unfair.

 

X3 wasn't "new" or "different", it was a crap version of The Dark Phoenix story. I say that as someone who doesn't even hate the movie and will rewatch it when I feel like watching the X-Men movies. Sometimes, things are legitimately screwed up. That doesn't mean you can't like it, but I'd say X3 has been pretty fairly judged by the majority opinion(even if I don't quite feel as harshly toward it).

 

X3 was a bad adaptation of Prof X dying, The Cure and the Dark Phoenix story lines. This all could've worked, but the movie was rushed through to hit a deadline. People blame Brett Ratner for X3's problems, but Kinberg's contributions aren't talked about enough.

It's not just the possibility of Kinberg writing and producing Supernova that has me worried. It's his recent track record that has shaken my confidence in his ability. Kinberg wrote and produced DOFP, which was great. But he also wrote X3, Fantastic 4 (2015), and X-Men Apocalypse. The dude missed the point of each respective story and the prospect of him coming back for another X-Men movie doesn't sit well with me.

 

In movies this big, writers are often servants to the producers. They may have to write around actor availability and demands, budget concerns, and in more cases than we probably ever hear about, many of the biggest action sequences are brainstormed and work begun on first, with the writers forced to connect the dots. With Fant4stic, someone obviously decided to make a Chronicle ripoff, and that could well have been one of the producers, and not its writer(s). So I'd say that Kinberg's record is a mixed one thus far.

I do suspect, however, that it's too early to do a Dark Phoenix story, when we barely know the "normal" young Jean, just as doing an Apocalypse story was premature for a brand-new team. Then again, maybe a big gamble is the best bet for such a leaking ship at this point.

 

Calling X3 and Apocalypse "bad" as if it's some concrete factual judgement/arraignment of those films and therefore an accurate argument against Kinberg's suitability for the role of director on Supernova just bothers me. If you didn't like either of those films, fine, but don't act as if your dislike of them is somehow a concrete 'disqualifier' when it comes to Kinberg potentially replacing Bryan Singer as the next Director in the main "X series".

 

Gotta love those majority opinions.

 

That...and the Dark Phoenix story is kind of overdone. The only real reason it keeps being done in various adaptations is because it's the old real story Jean Grey has to her character.

 

Don't let my opinions hurt your enjoyment of a piece of media. I only said I wasn't jazzed about Supernova and Kinberg returning. Yourself and others can feel positive about it if you want. I'll go see the movie in theaters, I'll tell you that. I see all the CBM and shows when they come out. Maybe they'll break their streak and Supernova will be spectacular. I'm really holding out for New Mutants though.

Yeah, that too. Just like Raven becoming evil and having no other story that doesn't involve her and Trigon. Also, with regards to the movies, guys who want revenge against the crew of the Enterprise or the Federation. 13 Trek movies and 6 movies are about guys wanting revenge.

 

Well, speaking as someone who disagrees with a lot of majority opinions, that's not necessarily true. But, sometimes, the majority opinion is fairly accurate. Trying to say the majority opinion is never right is as ridiculous as saying its always right. But, with X3, most people formed an accurate consensus on that movie. Not that everyone agrees, like I said I don't feel as harshly toward it as some, but its definitely not a good movie, and a very poor adaptation of the comic storylines it tries to cram together.

 

My biggest gripe with Apocalypse is that the whole movie felt like "been there, done that". If we're going to get another Dark Phoenix story, fine, but just make it feels like something different. Make it truly cosmic. Don't give me the same character beats.

 

Ah, thanks for the explanation. I like them as villains but definitely wouldn't go that far.

I actually like X3 overall, but I will admit it is the second weakest X-movie after Origins: Wolverine. The Dark Phoenix part was definitely the weakest part, it really needed a lot attention than what it was given in the movie.
Kinberg does have good and bad on his filmography, but putting a first time director on a movie this big just makes me nervous.

 

Speaking of X3, I read something the other day; could they not have just let Leach walk up to Jean Grey/Phoenix and all her powers would vanish?

I guess she was pretty powerful n all and would have seen him coming, but just something I never even thought about before.

 

I couldn't find a separate thread so I'll just post this here.
Burn Notice and APB creator Matt Nix's Untitled X-Men TV series has cast Jamie Chung as X-Men comics character Blink. Blair Redford was already cast as Sam, another mutant. I'm a big fan of Jamie Chung, so I'm happy with this news.