The X-Men Cinematic Universe (General Discussion)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by DigificWriter, May 1, 2016.

  1. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    This has happened a lot in the comics too. Magneto's speeches and declarations have turned out to be true more frequently now. The rub for most people are his methods. But then again, Magneto is not a hero. As it stands now in the comics, Magneto has and is working closely with the X-Men (Storm, Cyclops, Wolverine, Rogue, Emma etc) and is set to take up the mentor position for the time displaced O5 X-Men (teen Scott, Jean, Hank, Bobby, and Warren). In a world that never runs out of reasons to hate, fear and kill mutants, Magneto is a hero to his people.
     
  2. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As he's been depicted in the X-Verse so far, Erik is very much a character in the same vein as Tom Zarek from the new Battlestar Galactica in that his methods sometimes overshadow the nobility of his cause.
     
  3. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Isn't Cyclops a villain now? Or is he more of an anti-hero?
     
  4. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    Cyclops is dead now. Before that, Magneto and Cyclops were leading the team of Uncanny X-Men (from 2013-2015). Cyclops was only a villain because TPTB at Marvel said he was. In-universe, the general public liked him, and wondered why the Avengers were saying he was a criminal. Out-of-universe, the writers tried to walk the line of Cyclops being a "terrorist" or "freedom fighter". Execution wise though, it was handled with the maturity of a middle or high schooler. After Secret Wars/late 2015 at the start of All New, All Different (which was a time skip 8 months after Secret Wars ended) Cyclops was dead and all the X-Men hated his guts for then unexplained reasons.

    Last Fall, Lemire and Soule were finally writing Death of X to explain why Cyclops had become a "villain" and what he did to make all the X-Men and others in the MU hate him. This is where the Cyclops is a villain/terrorist/anti-hero narrative fell apart. The writers and editors didn't know exactly what they wanted to achieve with Cyclops being hated. They only knew they wanted him dead. So, they had to reverse engineer an explanation, and retcon/ignore what had been said on the All New, All Different X-titles (All New X-Men with the O5, Uncanny X-Men with Magneto, Extraordinary X-Men with Storm, Uncanny Avengers with Rogue and Extraordinary Wolverine with Laura) about Cyclops being a villain. Death of X showed Cyclops died a hero thanks to Emma's projections. When in reality he died of M-Pox from the Terrigen Mists.

    So Cyclops did nothing wrong. TPTB at Marvel just wanted to vilify him, because the Avengers/MCU are in and are what's "happening". They didn't have a forethought out plan though, and have basically taken to making it up as they go along.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  5. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks, I do remember reading reading about the whole mental projection/M-Pox thing now that I read your post.
     
  6. kitik

    kitik Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In the words of most of Quentin Quire's t-shirts...

    Cyclops was right too
     
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  7. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    [​IMG]


    I do like how "Magneto Was Right" has become a meme across various X-Men titles.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    ----------------------------------
    In other news, James McAvoy had dinner with Simon Kinberg (writer producer of X3, DOFP, FF and Apocalypse) and Hutch Parker (another X-Men producer). McAvoy says he can't wait for this summer. I surmise that means McAvoy is indeed returning for more X-Men, but will it be New Mutants or Supernova (The Dark Phoenix Saga 2.0)?

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BQuYoyxB23m/
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  8. Anwar

    Anwar Admiral Admiral

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    Well, Magneto would be more "right" if the mutants hasn't been the ones to start the Human/Mutant conflict in the X-Movies. Every anti-mutant thing done here has been in reaction to Mutants doing something first. Humans fear them because they threw the first punch, and more often than not Mutants COULD accidentally kill powerless humans.

    But X-Men's always ignored that.
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    Magneto's a fascist and mutant supremacist.
     
  10. Anwar

    Anwar Admiral Admiral

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    And he's perfectly fine exterminating every last Human on Earth if he could, as X2 proved.

    Why Xavier keeps thinking he can be redeemed, I'll never understand.
     
  11. Beagleman

    Beagleman Commodore Commodore

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    That's the only time I wasn't with him, the rest of the time... "Magneto Was Right!"
     
  12. Anwar

    Anwar Admiral Admiral

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    When was he "right" though? Most everything in the movies is the Humans just trying to defend themselves.

    They just don't give the Humans much chance at proper explanation for themselves to keep Magneto and the X-Men from looking bad.
     
  13. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Mutants being experimented on, butchered.

    Kor
     
  14. Anwar

    Anwar Admiral Admiral

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    Which, thanks to First Class, we knew was in response to the Hellfire Club trying to trigger a Nuclear War for the purpose of wiping out Humanity.
     
  15. Tosk

    Tosk Admiral Admiral

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    I fail to see how that's an appropriate response. A small group of Mutants try to do something horrible (and are, it should be noted, stopped by other Mutants) so we butcher them for experimentation?
     
  16. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    Magneto was a victim of Stryker's interrogation methods while in his plastic prison and he saw other mutants experimented on (Lady Deathstrike, Nightcrawler and Jason Stryker/Mastermind) in X2. Also in X2, we saw Stryker lead an assault on the Xavier mansion with soldiers, all under the president's orders. Magneto was the resource of information for Styker about the mansion and Cerebro, and Erik's own admission to the X-Men about Stryker's plan to use Charles to target mutants. Meaning he knew what Stryker intended before Mystique broke him out of prison.

    This does put him in a precarious situation. Magneto has always said that it will be humanity that draws first blood. Magneto's actions tend to be reactions to threats on mutants.

    X1: His plan was to change world leaders into mutants, so that the mutant cause, becomes there's.

    X2: Feeling the war was already started by Stryker, he tried to end it using Stryker's own machine to target humans.

    X3: The cure for mutation was created. Which, as Magneto hypothesized would be weaponized and was used against mutants, willing and unwilling.

    FC: Both the Russian and US Navies were given orders by their higher ups to exterminate the mutants on the island. This after they the X-Men stopped the Cuban Missile Crisis.

    DOFP: After hearing Wolverine's tale about what becomes of mutantkind in the future. The Sentinels, the death camps, the extermination squads, and the continued experimentation and murder of mutants. Magneto decided to lead an assault on the White House and kill all those responsible and rally the mutants to his side. Changing history in a way that benefits his vision.
     
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  17. Anwar

    Anwar Admiral Admiral

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    Most of the mutants butchered WERE Hellfire Club members, people who had no moral compunctions plotting the annihilation of all Humanity.

    Magneto's plan would've killed millions, so he's no innocent.

    Plus Jason Stryker only got lobotomized because he terrorized his family and drove his own mother to kill herself.

    To an outsider, the X-Mansion is a secret training center operating outside the law armed with military grade hardware. You saying THAT wouldn't raise any eyebrows and warrant investigation?

    He was wrong, it was the Mutants who drew first blood (Shaw).

    His actions tend to CREATE the problems for mutants. Not that he realizes this.

    And in the end, if he'd used his machine he'd have killed everyone in NYC and all the world leaders.

    Sorry, nothing justified trying to wipe out all of Humanity.

    It wasn't forced on anyone, only the volunteers got it. They only weaponized it because Magneto attacked.

    A crisis STARTED by Mutants. Hell, Erik outright said he AGREED with everything Shaw said and was only killing him because he killed his mom. Other than that, Erik was already happy to wipe out Humanity BEFORE the Humans fired at them.

    He never stops to think that maybe if Mutants actually bothered cooperating and meeting Humanity halfway that maybe this would stop things. After all, if Trask hadn't been killed by a mutant none of that bad future would've happened.

    And of course, Xavier lets Erik go instead of letting him suffer for his actions.

    Magneto's problem is that he thinks his Holocaust experience justifies everything he does. It doesn't. The Human/Mutant conflict is nothing like the Holocaust.
     
  18. Tosk

    Tosk Admiral Admiral

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    So what?

    Even if that were an acceptable response, what of Banshee? It's cool to murder (or vivisect) a good guy...a hero, just so that you can experiment?
     
  19. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    I can't defend Magneto's actions at the end of X2. I can only say that he is a bad guy and that he saw an opportunity to exploit someone else's doomsday machine.

    Also, the Cure was weaponized before Magneto attacked. Remember Mystique was hit with a dart at the beginning and Magneto used the gun to rally others to his cause?

    The point of my post was to demonstrate why people can empathize with Magneto, but not sympathize. He's a bad dude. Then again, people "woobify" blokes like Kylo Ren and Loki, and they're far worse that Magneto is.
     
  20. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Woobify?