Jennifer Lien status

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Drone, Sep 8, 2016.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nope.

    She's out?

    Awaiting trial.

    The laugh in this matter is that all the regulars keep getting paid the same cash sum per episode, no matter how few or many lines they are asked to deliver.

    The serious in this matter is that they forgot about Robert.

    Not as much as they forgot that Anthony was hanging around for 4 years on Enterprise.
     
  2. Drone

    Drone Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    [
    You're absolutely on target. Conventions are his metier, though to be fair, he does a lot more than just show up as a guest. He's made a very nice cottage industry career tor himself, by being emcee/director at quite a number of events on a regular basis. Don't get me wrong though with what I've said about him. While I won't say he's much of a talented thespian, I enjoyed how he portrayed Kim on the show. He played a significant enough role that had analogues on other sci-fi programs, had what I thought were enjoyable and natural relationships with Tom and B'Elanna, earned Janeway's admiration as an accomplished bridge officer, and more. While it's easy to say, which probably actually would have been hard to justify on the bottom line as the show wasn't exactly killing it, I agree with Lynx's oft stated opinion, that I would have thought it appropriate and just plain right, to have kept the entire ensemble and not let anyone go.

    Again, sir, I'm shocked. They had a genuine romantic history, which was a genuine and close friendship afterwards. Besides which, while you were making so much of the potential for a split because of Kes' aging, you honestly can't argue that the two didn't almost look exactly alike in their loving temporal perch, right after Andrew was born. In fact, the resemblance is amazing, IMHO. :)


    All right. Lynx references this interview mentioned elsewhere, in which she appears to be saying very specific and seemingly, cogent things about her life post-Voyager. I've never seen it and I'd wager I've looked for information that would speak to an explanation of how things developed for her as they did. That's not to say that there wasn't such an interview, perhaps more recently, say since these criminal acts, when I haven't been scrutinizing sources as much as I did before. I too would very much like to see it in its entirety, if it was done.

    The point I want to get too is that yes, from the time she was on the show, and certainly shortly afterward there was much talk about drug use. You contend that she's been in rehab, as if it's an established and well known fact and follow that up by saying her "brain's fried", which to my knowledge, is also used to point to someone with that affliction.

    However, with what is absolutely known about her con appearances, in terms of both quietude combined with instances of seeming out of it, but not as from what I would interpret the type of drugs that people are alluding to here, rather medication that induces extreme enervation, difficulty in concentrating, and paying attention, as would not surprisingly be administered to someone who suffered profoundly from some kind of social anxiety disorder. I would affirm that my expertise on the propensity to progress from such an illness to a much more serious psychiatric illness, is rather less than concrete. But it seems more than plausible given the relatively quick renouncement from working in her profession, a seeming self-imposed isolation from people save those that she knew well personally, the breakdown of her marriage and separation from her children, the lack of gainful activity, and then almost mythical seeming disappearance off the face of the earth (even for those avidly seeking to establish such information so as to feel there was some possibility of forwarding correspondence so that she would receive it). That such a metamorphosis could have been escalated or even instigated by illegal drug use cannot be dismissed. I also won't deny that it is a bias of mine to prefer to believe that such was not the case, although both are illnesses. If I do see primary source material in which she says that drugs played a role, so be it. But even with that, I innately feel that hers has not been solely a drug addiction experience, but one that rather impacted the development of a dangerous mental illness, that may very well have happened anyway without effective and accepted psychiatric treatment, such as, say, schizo-effective disorder, something that I have very extensive knowledge of, having seen it up close and personal for decades.

    I would finally say that your statement of the flashing misdemeanor having a more than reasonable effect of dogging or condemning her for at least a very significant period of time remaining in her life, is not something I believe is inevitable. If her diagnosis is indeed a profound mental illness, is the state, nonetheless, constrained to absolutely have to label her as a sex offender? Aside from which, there are myriad people, individuals who are much more widely known than Jennifer Lien in the greater world, who under the influence of a substance or such an illness, have wreaked much more havoc upon others, obviously up to the taking of someone's life. Some have been punished, but others due to their status or wealth have not, and further not been shunned out of hand. Would Lien ever return to the public realm if her illness is truly brought under control, and she can function "normally" without ever being a threat of any kind again? Treated successfully to that degree even being the case, she may very well choose to live the quiet life that has been the case for so many years. But even if she decides to be in the public, merely in the sense of being a professional who can help people, I don't think that it's impossible for her to establish such a niche and find acceptance.

    I have always thought that the felony charges are the far more serious ones to consider. they easily could have resulted in her or a police officer's death. And I think that a next step from this crime, without that effective intervention, might very likely result in such an end. Isn't that possibility far more dangerous and actually mandate the type of punishment that would mark Lien for life? What is the real consequence of this, albeit more sensational, crime on those children upon which it was perpetrated? I won't dismiss that it might impact their ongoing perception of the human body, in a developmentally negative way. But, they weren't touched, threatened, or further approached, to the best of my understanding. I think it much more likely that either through what their parent(s) emphasize to them, or through their own cognition, they may view what happened as the strange but harmless actions of a crazy person.

    I argue only for a sensible application of proportionality in considering the two incidents and not be swayed by the siren appeal of the celebrity culture that is endemic and makes as much as it can wring from a momentarily notorious act, that in the accuracy of how the real world defines it, probably leads to nothing. It's schmatte, if you will, the perception of which can have the easy impact of concealing for those who search no further, a much more dangerous and threatening condition.

    By the way, while I've read comments here and there from a few people claiming they have received return correspondence from Ms. Lien, the authenticity of which I obviously cannot attest to, I can say that I have gotten such an acknowledgement from her, once, responding to the holiday season card I sent her 3 years ago. It was short, but kindly thanked me for my question of what working pursuit she had wound up following. Her response was that caring for her family (read children) was what was consuming her attention at that time. I doubt that such was the case, as it being already a year after the domestic abuse that she inflicted against her mother was adjudicated, I suspect that she wouldn't be able to even see her children, save for those occasions when her separated husband might bring them from California for a visit, a trek that he attested to making on either a social or professional site. While any real change for the better from an illness so long in the making, might be illusory and the condition prove to be intractable, I simply think that up till now she has not wanted to be reminded of her past existence, as brilliantly as it shone for such a brief time, and long ago made the choice to be unresponsive to just about anyone who in writing to her, would directly bring her to face that long disavowed, perhaps hated reality, through their words of praise.

    Anyone that's interested in seeing the note Ms. Lien forwarded, please PM me, and while rather embarrassed to say, I will fax it to you, as I don't have access to a scanner that I can put to use for this kind of message.


    Just for accuracy, that small town happened to be Chicago. Also, interestingly the con you're mentioning, is exactly one to which she was scheduled to appear, but withdrew as she claimed that one of her children was ill. I remember it very well, as I was set to go, with reservations, until I heard that update. I bailed on it too, at that point.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  3. Drone

    Drone Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Just in case you didn't catch it, I think the post that started the thread, mine, is likely still the most up-to-date status on her cases.

     
  4. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A well-written comment about all this. Unfortunately, you haven't convinced me.

    If we look at Kes's absence, or at least lack of screen time in the last episodes of season 3, then we have to remember that there were a few episodes in seasons 1 and 2 when she was hardly visible, like "Maneuvers" and "Resistance" but she wasn't kicked out after those episodes.

    We can also look at whole season 3 where she has more episodes than Neelix and Kim. Kes is the main character in "Warlord", "Darkling" and "Before And After". She also has a very important role in "The Swarm" while Neelix basically has "Fair Trade" and "Rise" and Kim has "The Chute" and "Favorite Son".

    They did also having problem with Wang at that time. He was often being late for filming and so.

    As for the letter campaign, it was staged from this site:
    http://www.jennifer-lien.com/
    Unfortunately it's not updater drgularily anymore but you can always try to write to the webmaster of the site to get some information about the campaign.

    After the insulting episode ins eason 6, with some help from a skilled script writer I did write a script for a story which would undo the damage done to the character in that episode and sent it to Paramount. To mamke a long story short, some people liked it unfortunately not the right people. Anyway, during my brief contacts with Paramount I was told that the letter campaign had been noticed by the hotshots, therefore my theory about that episode being a finger from those in charget to the Kes fans. Why would they otherwise come up with such a sick and morbid story without any importance for the ongoing Voyager story?

    As for "being fired" or "not having the contract renewed", it's basically semantics which are made to make those in charge look good in the eyes of the fans. I mean, if I hire nine people to work on my house and give them a three months contract and then after three months where all of them have contributed a lot to the construction I thell them that "all of you, except Stig will have your contracts renewed for the coming months", then the exclusion of Stig basically is and can be seen as a firing of that person, not to mention an insult to Stig himself.

    As for that insulting episode in season 6, I still see no reason for coming up with such an episode if not for insulting the fans of the character. OK, I see your points about not bringing back, Starling and not bringing in Picard, Riker, Q and Kirk ( I didn't bring up Rain Robinson because bringing her back from 20th century Earth would have been too much over the top) but bringing in one of those characters would have been more logical than top bring back a character they tried everything to make us forget only to humiliate and destroy the character in the worst possible way (and kill off the character which was their original intent).

    Did they really think that the fans of Kes would like that episode? In that case, they must have been very stupid and I don't think they are that stupid. They did know exactly what they were doing.

    It would actually have been smarter to bring in the characters I mentioned above because it coud at least have made a positive impression. The insulting crap episode might have warmed the hearts of the small fraction of fans who hated the character but the main impression of that eoisode wa that it insulted a lot of fans, both Kes fans and ordinary Voyager fans (who were disgusted to see a beloved character ruined like this) and bored the rest of the fanbase.
     
  5. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    She's out, not in prison.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I phrased that badly.

    Should have said "Do you know that she is out?"

    I'm bored of always editing constant typos.
     
  7. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Drone, sir ... there is much to intake and absorb, with your massive missive. Much to digest. I've not even had my 1st cup of coffee, this morning, OK? Here I am, sitting here in my skivvies, bed-headed ... eyes squinting ... still emerging from my long slumber ... Nevertheless, I will attempt to give you a proper response. But there will be gaps. Points made will be missed ... as I try to focus. Yet, I'm of good cheer, as the kettle's on, and this post will reflect that:

    First, the lighter element of having agreed with Sophie that Before & After never "happened." I love Kes and when she's celebrated on the show and is allowed to have fun and good things, I'm happy to watch all that unfold on my viewing screen. I've oft wanted to see her belonging to a Man who truly deserved her - and Tom does. Nevertheless, I stand by most - if not all - of my previous response. You did bring up some interesting points, however, in your rebuttal.

    Now ... onto Jennifer Lien: I do not know Ms. Lien. I've never met her. I enjoy no correspondence with her, nor have I sought any. Nor do I know what's causing her Mental Irregularities. I am an Artist, not a shrink. I've only ever assumed recreational drug use was involved - and continue to do so. But I have no special knowledge or insight into her condition, how it might be corrected, or the quality of her Life.

    As for my comment on her being made to 'pay' for her flashing incident, as I called it, for the rest of her Life, I stand by that. Whatever spin any of us wants to put on it, or what our opinion is on how it should be viewed, or how she should be treated because of it ... the fact is, it happened and was made puplic knowledge, around the world. Only building a functioning Time Machine can ever change that. And because it happened, society can, does and will hold her up to scrutiny - regardless of how the Law labels her. And - based on the available facts - it is my desperate hope that it won't label her. That it will continue, only, to try to help her. But ... the world does not have to love her, as we do. It's tough enough, out there, even with OUT being held up to public ridicule. Life's a bitch, whether you lose or win.
     
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  8. The Lonely Man

    The Lonely Man Commander Red Shirt

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    Nope. :shrug:
     
  9. KelisThePoet

    KelisThePoet Commander Red Shirt

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    Addiction is not about making bad choices, except in common parlance. Clinical addiction entails physical withdrawal symptoms, which eating lots of sugar never does, and psychological withdrawal symptoms, which eating lots of sugar rarely does.
     
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  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Withdrawl is a punishment that doesn't happen until you decide to get off whatever you are on.

    That's a choice.

    Stay happy, or bring on the pain.

    Why would any one ever chose pain?

    The weaker the drug, the less disturbing the withdrawl pain.
     
  11. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I regret not trying certain drugs when I was younger and stupider because now I'm too old and smart to do so and I missed out.
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But you're heading to the other end of the spectrum.

    As soon as one of us is old enough to wonder why the hell we're still alive: Heroin Season.

    Old folks homes should be intense pharmacological wonderlands wallpapered with the best gear Class A has to give us.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
  13. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    This sort of regret indicates that maybe it's not too late and you are still capable of doing stupid things.
     
  14. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  15. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They're practically that way, already. Having visited people at Old Folks' Homes, myself, let me tell you ...

    What you've got there is a bunch of hot nurses who don't feel like doing shit else, all day, but texting their boyfriends and watching TV. So, they'll medicate and sedate the old farts under their care, until they're stoned ... and quiet.
     
  16. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    It's never too late
     
  17. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    I don't know if you're joking or not...but this is really how it is. I used to know someone who worked in an old folks home and she told stores about it. Also there is a lot of old people sex there. She was constantly finding them in each others beds naked.
     
  18. KelisThePoet

    KelisThePoet Commander Red Shirt

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    Not really. With most drugs, you have to keep using more and more to get the same high. There comes a point where that's neither economically nor physically feasible. But even laying that aside, technically and medically speaking, addiction happens when a person becomes physically and psychologically dependent on a substance. Any debate about how much choice people have to keep using or suffer withdrawals does not alter the fact of their dependence or the fact that sugar is not an addictive, dependence-causing substance.
     
  19. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    ANYTHING can be addictive
     
  20. Thomas Eugene

    Thomas Eugene Commodore Commodore

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    Certainly but some types of addiction are not too dangerous. My addiction is called Star Trek Voyager ... and I am about to start the show for the 36th time at the weekend ... :D
    Now the big question is: would I suffer withdrawals if I had no access to it? And if so, would I suffer physically as well as psychologically? What would be the first signs, I wonder ... :devil: