Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by tomalak301, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    The show really starts to take form with the arrival of a certain someone in the next episode.
     
  2. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Well Alexis Denisof (sorry for the misspelling) is in the next episode which I’m watching so we get to see Wesley again, finally.
     
  3. Janeway’s Girl

    Janeway’s Girl Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    @tomalak301 In case you didn’t know, the actor who played Doyle (Glenn Quinn) was fired, because he was constantly late for filming and didn’t know his lines. He had a long history of depression and drug abuse. He died of an overdose in 2002. Joss and co. had originally wanted Alexis Denisof at the start of Angel but he was unavailable. So they created Doyle.

    I wish he didn’t have the issues that he did because I really liked Doyle.
     
    tomalak301 likes this.
  4. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2001
    Location:
    Mr. Adventure
    I'm so relieved now that you've seen Hero lol. Every time you mentioned Doyle I'd be like uhp :censored:
     
  5. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Hero is a really great episode and an unexpected payoff for the way Doyle was being built up. Unfortunately, it wasn't done for creative reasons. The actor had to be fired because of his drug issues. He OD'd a year or two later.

    ETA: Ninja'd.
     
    tomalak301 likes this.
  6. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I had actually found out he died in 2002 but I was wondering why the character didn’t work out. I guess putting two and two together it makes sense.
     
  7. Janeway’s Girl

    Janeway’s Girl Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    I’m actually a few episodes ahead of you now so we’re kind of watching Angel at the same time, except I’ve already watched season 5.
     
    tomalak301 and OCD Geek like this.
  8. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2001
    Location:
    Mr. Adventure
    I knew he had troubles but didn't know that was the reason for his being fired. I don't think Joss himself has ever copped to that being the reason.
     
  9. OCD Geek

    OCD Geek Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Doyle was also created when Whedon & Greenwalt couldn't get Max Perlich to reprise his role of Whistler (from the Season 2 finale of Buffy) on Angel due to unavailability. When Perlich was later asked about this in an interview, he had no idea. Not only was this the first he heard about it, he was really bummed out that he lost out on that opportunity.

    Apparently it was one of those cases of the agent and/or manager being asked if their client was available and the actor themselves not being given the chance to decide for themselves.
     
    tomalak301 likes this.
  10. Janeway’s Girl

    Janeway’s Girl Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    David Fury said in an interview that Joss had wanted to kill of a main character in Angel. He didn’t want to kill off Doyle but because Glenn Quinn had drug abuse issues, it had be done.

    Oh yeah, I forgot they had wanted Whistler! That would have been interesting.
     
    tomalak301 likes this.
  11. OCD Geek

    OCD Geek Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    The official line from Whedon, Greenwalt & Minear is that the plan was always to kill off Doyle early on. Even back when he was going to be Whistler. However, there have been reports that his addiction was really impacting his work. Quinn was increasingly showing up late and forgetting lines.

    He was also extremely close friends with David Boreanaz (and Lindsey actor Christian Kane) and executives at The WB and 20th Century Fox Television were reportedly afraid Quinn's illness would rub off on their main star. Because addiction is highly contagious just like the flu and chicken pox, apparently. *rolls eyes*

    Greenwalt & Minear designed a trilogy of episodes to write Doyle out, while telling Quinn that if he overcame his battle with addiction they had an idea to write him back in the show later on as a Big Bad. Sadly, Quinn lost his battle two years later.
     
    gblews and tomalak301 like this.
  12. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Parting Gifts

    This one was ok, but the highlights were really just seeing Wesley again and learning more about the whole visions thing. All this time I thought the visions was a trait that Doyle had but it seems like they can be passed from one host to the next, almost like the Katra in Star Trek. They keep saying the Powers that Be and I wonder of those two Oracle beings are what they are talking about. It looks like those two are going to be a recurring theme in the series.

    Also I remember watching season 3 of Buffy and not liking Wesley. Well he actually got a little better but I’m so glad I get to see the character grow on Angel. Nice continuity with Faith and Buffy too, even though Buffy was never really played up as a renegade.

    As for the plot, it was pretty similar to the pilot with Barney being bad and Cordy in distress. Still the mythology is still building mainly because it’s season 1.
     
  13. Janeway’s Girl

    Janeway’s Girl Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    I liked the ending where Wesley is attempting to leave and keeps hanging by the doorway in hopes that Angel and Cordelia will ask him to stay, and then Angel makes them eggs and toast.
     
    May 20, OCD Geek and tomalak301 like this.
  14. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I did too. I can already see the chemistry building there.
     
    Janeway’s Girl and OCD Geek like this.
  15. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    I really love how Angel, Cordy and Wesley interacted. The roque demon hunter is my favorite character of the Bufy/Angel verse. :)
     
    tomalak301 likes this.
  16. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Location:
    I said out, dammit!
    Glenn Quinn also played Becky's husband Mark on Rosanne, and in the reboot series, Mark is mentioned as having died, with Becky still grieving and lost.
     
    OCD Geek and tomalak301 like this.
  17. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I can’t wait to see how Wesley develops. He was such an annoying character when he was introduced but I actually smiled when he appeared. I also loved how he talked about being fired and being a fraud. He could provide some levity to this series.
     
  18. OCD Geek

    OCD Geek Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Whedon pitched Wesley to the Buffy: Season 3 writers as "a guy who thinks he's Sean Connery when he's actually George Lazenby."
     
  19. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    That’s a pretty apt description. :guffaw:
     
  20. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Location:
    I said out, dammit!
    Oh hell, even Lazenby was cooler than Wesley! :lol: