I couldn't stand the C/7 relationship at all. The producers just wanted to spice things up a bit with those two. It ruined the series for me. I did like the idea of them getting home, but not in the means of time travel and CERTAINLY not with the Borg for crying out loud! The series just didn't end the way I wanted it to and it really disappointed me greatly. But there's always fanfiction right?
I've never seen the age difference as quite so great an obstacle as some fans seem to. But then, my father is 17 years older than my stepmother (they've been married for 32 years); a good friend is 20 years older than his wife (they've been married for nine years); and another friend is 18 years older than her partner (they've been together for 15 years). He should have been with her because he should have been with her? Um, okay.... Seriously, though I started the series as a J/Cer, by the time we got to the end of the series Janeway was the last woman I wanted to see Chakotay with. Yes, I know full well that puts me in a minority. But the simple truth of the matter is that I don't think Janeway, as written, was ready or able to have a relationship, and certainly not with Chakotay. First, we saw in "Scorpion 1" and "Equinox II" that she had a bad way of treating professional disagreement as personal betrayal. That would bode ill for the success of any relationship, especially one with the man whose very job description requires him to look for the weak points in her strategies. Second, we saw hints from the very beginning that, as captain, she did not consider herself eligible for a relationship, even if Voyager's unusual circumstances made romantic entanglements more acceptable for the rest of the crew. Remember her remarks in "Elogium"? Third, while I saw plenty of proof in the first few seasons that he was attracted to her, I contend that the evidence for her attraction to him was much thinner on the ground. Fourth, if you consider Jeri Taylor's novel Mosaic as canon (as many J/Cers I know seem to), then the whole bit with Daddy and Justin and the crash provides pretty strong evidence that Janeway can't handle it when someone she loves is at risk. And really can't handle it if the situation ends badly. This strongly suggests that, for her, it really would be a mistake to get involved with someone from her crew -- dangerous for him and for her ability to command, too! Finally: Sweet Mother of God, nobody really waits seven years for someone to make up her mind whether she "likes him likes him" or not, and if she does, whether she's going to act on it or not. I mean, yes, Chak's a nice guy and all, but that would just be masochism on his part -- especially as he would have had no reason to believe the wait would ever end. That sort of crap is only romantic in stories about 10th-century knights; it would be hell for anyone to actually have to live it. As for Chakotay's relationship with Seven, well, why not? She's an intelligent, capable woman. She's unquestionably brave. Like Chakotay, she's religious in her own way; like Chakotay, she has a dry and quirky sense of humor. Unlike Janeway, she was both willing and able to declare herself to him; she even took the risk of deactivating her emotional failsafe for him. Yes, she's beautiful, but I think it's selling her short to suggest (as some have done) that the only reason he would have been attracted to her was because of her looks. It's true there wasn't much foreshadowing, but hell, in "Endgame" they were only on their second date. There hadn't been that much "fore" to "shadow." Brennyren
That a relationship is a distraction she couldn't afford. It's true. When entering into a relationship we become consumed with the idea of return affection, the need to be needed. Janeway like most everybody else knew she would be spending most of her time thinking about being with her lover and not be completely focused on getting her crew home. It became a conflict of interest for Sisko on DS9 when he was faced with the idea that Cassady Yates was working with the Maquis or Chakotay with believing Seska was a traitor and a Cardassian. Janeway couldn't have that, her focus had to be totally on getting Voyager home.
Yeah, i didn't like the Irish hologram either, Ro Laren. J/C was much more compatable, IMHO. But I think what happened is that he got tired of waiting forever(I would have done the same thing) and went to the second best. If I had been Janeway, I would have gone after him with every part of my being! But that's just me.
I agree, no man is going to wait 7 years to get a woman's attention or affection when there is a ship full of other ladies just as good. The minute Janeway refered to Chakotay as "friends", that was the kiss of death right there. Plus, dating Janeway would be like dating his boss, that would put their command structure in question by not only the crew but it would also influence debates over what was right or wrong for the crew & ship. They're emotions and feelings for each other would come into play and make bias many of their choices.
My feelings exactly. There is no lead in to this so-called 'relationship' except for Human Error. Which does nothing but show how utterly CREEPY Seven is. That holo-Chakotay was like a 24th century version of a blow-up doll, for 'cryin out loud! And if I was Chakotay, I wouldn't be FLATTERED by it - I'd be totally creeped out by it! Add that to the fact that they never really got along for the previous 3 seasons and he didn't exactly trust the Borg...and the whole 'ship feels forced and absurd. One of my two least favorite points about Endgame.
Wow...I didn't think the thread would garner this much attention. lol. I still personally think J/C should have ended up together, as Janeway knew by Endgame that Mark had remarried. They'd had history since Season One, and I consider it something of a slap in the face to fans that Seven and Chakotay got together after only one episode. And in that it didn't really count since one of them was a hologram. Sigh. Oh, for what could have been.... And at least Kira/Odo had been shown to have a relationship progress over the course of seasons....they didn't just come together at the last second like 7/C did.
Seven's "relationship" and sexual experimentation with the Chakotay hologram was a serious breach of ethics. It is highly innapropriate to recreate co-workers in the holodeck and engage in relations with them. Rises the question as to why she didn't get in trouble for it.
You didn't? This topic ALWAYS generates attention in the VOY forum. In fact, there might not BE a more sure way of starting a successful thread in here. I think that's the way it should have ended up too. And the writers did spend a fair amount of time over the years exploring that possibility for the future. And they did the same thing, by the way, with Seven and the EMH. Both groups had their shippers....and pretty much everyone was disappointed in the ending because no one really expected or had wanted *that*. *sigh* Well, that's true enough. I'm NOT a fan of Kira/Odo by any stretch. I think it's creepy, to be honest. But I will say this for them - they did develop the thing properly.
Just to play Devil's Advocate, wouldn't that be too predictable? At least C/7 got people talking, be it good or bad it still got us to interact and post threads about it. If we got what we wanted this forum would be as silent as a tomb.
^ Well, I think 'shipper stuff is a whole different can of worms than the rest of the issues surrounding the standard complaint of "We didn't get what we wanted!" You have to remember, you have a whole contingent of people out there who watch these shows almost PURELY for the 'ships. To you and me, that may sound funky....but one read through the ENT forum of 2 years ago would have illustrated quite clearly that this issue is of PRIMARY concern to some fans. So when you spend several seasons deliberately building up the fans' hopes for one thing...it's not just being 'unpredictable' to pull the rug out from under them. It's flat out dirty pool. Some of these folks watched this show for 7 YEARS because of J/C. And the writers knew it. They led these people on...and then pulled the rug out from under them, basically saying "Thanks tons for 7 years of loyal viewing! And by the way, fuck you!" Seriously...that is the way this was seen by ALOT of fans. J/C fans...but also EMH/7 fans and 7/Unimatrix Guy fans. Long story short, if they were going for "unpredictable"...they should have gone for it another way.
I totally agree! Well it's true I ended up joining the board after "Endgame" since I needed to vent about it all. My current level of sanity demonstrates just how well that therapy worked out!
Unless they made a new regulation, it wasn't "illegal" to do this back in TNG Holo pursuits when Reg made his Deanna to fantacize over. Although it was Leah Brahms who should have sued the pants off Geordie since she went as far as to actually say that she thought he was using her representation as a fuck puppet. Not only was there no legal ramifications, but Geordie married that girl eventually. Or, at least in one possible future. Quark should have been vivisected when he made a holowhore version of Kira for one of his customers played by Jeffery Coombs in one of the few forgettable episodes of DS9.
Perhaps they only showed the Chakotay hologram because it fit with the relationhip in Endgame. I wonder if Seven did this with others as well to test how she liked everyone in that way. Did she get a holo-scan of everyone or just guess? There would be appreciable differences between holo-estimate and the real person in the penile area.