Super-spoilery Series 8 discussion - enter at own risk
- Thread starter JoeZhang
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I haven't read the scripts, so I can only comment on the spoilery tidbits that are so far getting people's panties in a bunch.
I'm unclear as to why the Clara stuff is provoking such an outcry. From DAY ONE she was presented as a mystery. The Doctor feels COMPELLED to find her. Later on, it's shown that she goes into his timestream and saves him. After that, it's her that convinces him of the right thing to do regarding Gallifrey/The Moment. And she pleads for his life to the Time Lords.
Now, so what if she goes back into his timestream and has even more of an effect on his life? She was conceived as the 50th anniversary companion. Through her, the show is going back through its own history; celebrating it, if you look at it that way. Yes of course she's a deus ex machina. Of course she has a special connection to the Doctor and his lifetime. That's all been shown and hinted at before. So why is it a bad thing if it's expounded upon? She's the 50th anniversary companion. She's serving her purpose.
So I don't understand the hoo-ha over this "sacred ground" and "some questions must be left unanswered" stuff.
We all know Moffat isn't going to reveal the Doctor's name. We all know that the Doctor is not going to stop being a hero who goes on adventures, taking people along with him. We all know that his character will never be fully explained. But after 50 years, a show has to evolve somehow. I fail to see how revealing a bit of his past, showing his youth BEFORE he was "the Doctor", through the girl who saved his life a million times over, is a bad thing. No one is born a hero. And it's no different than revealing that one of his incarnations was that of a warrior.
Yet I don't recall that ruffling many people's feathers after the initial shock. Why? Because it was John Hurt (kewl!) and we got to see Paul McGann again?(awesome!) People forgot what they were mad about after that.
I'm not exactly a Moffat fan, and I agree that he's better at standalone episodes, but you've got to move the story and the mythos forward or your 50 year old show will just stay the same. I'm willing to wait and see how it plays out and how Capaldi plays the Doctor before I rush to judgment.
I'm unclear as to why the Clara stuff is provoking such an outcry. From DAY ONE she was presented as a mystery. The Doctor feels COMPELLED to find her. Later on, it's shown that she goes into his timestream and saves him. After that, it's her that convinces him of the right thing to do regarding Gallifrey/The Moment. And she pleads for his life to the Time Lords.
Now, so what if she goes back into his timestream and has even more of an effect on his life? She was conceived as the 50th anniversary companion. Through her, the show is going back through its own history; celebrating it, if you look at it that way. Yes of course she's a deus ex machina. Of course she has a special connection to the Doctor and his lifetime. That's all been shown and hinted at before. So why is it a bad thing if it's expounded upon? She's the 50th anniversary companion. She's serving her purpose.
So I don't understand the hoo-ha over this "sacred ground" and "some questions must be left unanswered" stuff.
We all know Moffat isn't going to reveal the Doctor's name. We all know that the Doctor is not going to stop being a hero who goes on adventures, taking people along with him. We all know that his character will never be fully explained. But after 50 years, a show has to evolve somehow. I fail to see how revealing a bit of his past, showing his youth BEFORE he was "the Doctor", through the girl who saved his life a million times over, is a bad thing. No one is born a hero. And it's no different than revealing that one of his incarnations was that of a warrior.
Yet I don't recall that ruffling many people's feathers after the initial shock. Why? Because it was John Hurt (kewl!) and we got to see Paul McGann again?(awesome!) People forgot what they were mad about after that.
I'm not exactly a Moffat fan, and I agree that he's better at standalone episodes, but you've got to move the story and the mythos forward or your 50 year old show will just stay the same. I'm willing to wait and see how it plays out and how Capaldi plays the Doctor before I rush to judgment.
Either River or the TARDIS, I think. And for the same reason -- both know that Clara needs to meet the Doctor for the Doctor to survive the Great Intelligence and for the Doctor's history to even happen.
Not entirely bog-standard, but close enough.
I just finished perusing them and overall this is one of the stronger batches of episodes we've seen lately. "Listen" is going to be hit or miss depending on the execution and "Time Heist" doesn't entirely work for me, but I don't have much to complain about with the others.
I am really enjoying how 12 is being written. I can imagine 11 saying 9/10 of these lines but then one slips in that really challenges the mold that the last few Doctors have fit into. A much better adjustment than Smith's first season, where he was written exactly like Tennant 99% of the time.
I just finished perusing them and overall this is one of the stronger batches of episodes we've seen lately. "Listen" is going to be hit or miss depending on the execution and "Time Heist" doesn't entirely work for me, but I don't have much to complain about with the others.
I am really enjoying how 12 is being written. I can imagine 11 saying 9/10 of these lines but then one slips in that really challenges the mold that the last few Doctors have fit into. A much better adjustment than Smith's first season, where he was written exactly like Tennant 99% of the time.
I haven't seen it mentioned here, but check out the "Graphics" credit at the end of the Deep Breath script. It lists the BBC Wales Graphics "based on original idea by Billy Hanshaw." Hanshaw, if you'll recall, was the guy who did the clock-based concept Doctor Who credits that were making the rounds some months ago.
His Vimeo page is worth checking out as he's got a couple of Doctor Who-themed videos on there.
His Vimeo page is worth checking out as he's got a couple of Doctor Who-themed videos on there.
The voice does start out a bit weird & less modulated for a standard Dalek, but I'm thinking more and more that it isn't supposed to be Davros, as much as I'd like it to be.
In one of the other threads it's pointed out there's a rumoured future episode involving Davros which is supposedly similar to DS9's Waltz.
Buzzkill 
I totally agree. I've only read Breath Deep (and don't plan to read the others), but for some of the lines I heard Smith's voice as I read them. Obviously, Capaldi will add his own twist to them. But, then there were other lines that would never be said by Smith's Doctor. I think even the "meanness" will often be used for comedic effect. His Doctor does have an edge, but not the OTT obnoxious edge that Colin Baker's Doctor could have.
Overall, I thought it worked very well. I'm looking forward to this season!
Mr Awe
The lines used in the trailer are the lines used by the dalek in the episode - so if Davros does turn up, it's not using those lines and nothing to do with that trailer.
Every script seems to involve either robots or aliens these days. I'd wish someone would have the balls to do an honest to god historical. Or a humans only script like Enemy of the World, etc.
I'm loving Capaldi's Doctor the more I read. He's a witty, sarcastic legend. I'm only up the archery contest in 803 and it's just brilliant. Can't wait to see the episode.
Ah, so once again we were all looking hard at something that wasn't there.
Me too. Unfortunately, it does seem unlikely since most of the classic era's historicals are held in low regard. Even Torchwood's Countrycide, which doesn't involve aliens, robots, monsters, demons or any kind of sci-fi fare isn't really a fan favourite.
I think straight historicals are difficult to make exciting without extenuating circumstances and it also can get pretty grim to show accurate history without the sugar of alien interference to help that pill go down. A lot of historical heroes were clearly terrible people so then you have the factor of not offending the people who lionize them while also not offending the peoples who may have been their victims. And then there are religious interests that conflict with historical information. etc. etc.
I could go for a few historicals where the outside/alien/supernatural influence is more hands-off or subdued and grew into legends like The Fountain of Youth or Beowulf or Bigfoot or whatever.
I could go for a few historicals where the outside/alien/supernatural influence is more hands-off or subdued and grew into legends like The Fountain of Youth or Beowulf or Bigfoot or whatever.
For years people complained the lack of stories set onn other planets and now that we're getting more of those kind of stories, you want simple earth stories? Robots, alein invasions and base under siege stories are what made Doctor Who IMO. They've also done a number of stories set in the past with few aliens or monsters.
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