The nature of Genesis's "Galatic Controversy"

[Xerxes1979]

Something that has always bothered me is how the Reliant didn't know there was human settlement in the Ceti system. Surely when warping into the system they would have checked the official logs. It took the buckle strap to jog Checkov's memory, almost if the events of Space Seed were erased from official history.

Why was the Enterprise decommissioned if nearly all her battle damage was repaired? To hush up the work crews and the public gawking at her in space dock?

I submit that anything Eugenic or Augment related is a very sore point of contention with the Klingon Empire and it is this "preservation of our race" aspect that the ambassador was speaking too in ST:IV.

Why would a random explosion in the Mutura sector cause a complete breakdown in diplomacy? How did they even know what it was? The spies were still trying to get more info in ST:III so what was causing the outrage? Khan was there. The Khan-augment-smoothhead threat is what set them off.

I suspect some sort of Omega directive level scrubbing of facts well into the 24th century. How did Bashir not know of smooth head Klingons? Why was his career still jeopardy if not for some deep, deep anti-augment bias still in affect for over a century?

Was it really the Vulcan's who guaranteed human security or was it a secret pact reached during Archer's time not mess with certain things less face full scale war with the Empire?

 

[sojourner]

Or it could have just been a plot hole in the script.

 

[T'Girl]

Something that has always bothered me is how the Reliant didn't know there was human settlement in the Ceti system.

Maybe they did know. They weren't (or so they thought) going to the planet listed as having people on it, possibly a quarantined plant. They heading for the orbit of the next planet out.

Terrell seemed to be running a pretty loose bridge, obviously they didn't scan the entire system, they just went to where they expect number six to be waiting for them.

Why was the Enterprise decommissioned

According to Scotty she needed another refit, fixing the battle damage was perhaps only the critical immediate repairs.

It might not have been considered economical to return her to full operating condition yet again.

 

[SchwEnt]

^^^This is true. It happens today-- ships and aircraft and other vehicles that are in perfectly fine condition are decommissioned/scrapped for economic, political or other reasons.

 

[sonak]

I think the "galactic controversy" angle was a contrivance to set up the "Kirk going rogue to save his friend" angle in TSFS. It never really made sense that the Federation would be concerned with what the Klingons or Romulans cared thought about the Genesis device. But by putting an obstacle in Kirk's path, it makes the movie more interesting than a simple "Kirk goes to Genesis to retrieve Spock, fights some Klingons and leaves" plot would have been.


Yes, it's ridiculous that they wouldn't have scanned and found the settlement on Ceti Alpha V, but hey, they had to get the ball rolling.

 

[Timo]

Something that has always bothered me is how the Reliant didn't know there was human settlement in the Ceti system. Surely when warping into the system they would have checked the official logs. It took the buckle strap to jog Checkov's memory, almost if the events of Space Seed were erased from official history.

Why would they be in the official history in the first place? Kirk dropped all official charges against Khan and marooned him, apparently out of brotherly admiration towards this great man from the past as much as out of the need to get him off his ship before his next hijacking attempt. That probably went against sixty-three regulations, so Kirk wouldn't have made the events public. He can edit his log, and those of others (or ask them to do it), as evidenced in several episodes - he erases all traces of Zephram Cochrane being found in "Metamorphosis", for example.

Why was the Enterprise decommissioned if nearly all her battle damage was repaired? To hush up the work crews and the public gawking at her in space dock?

The ship didn't look particularly repaired. She was being held together with 23rd century duct tape, and had apparently accumulated even more damage between the ending of ST2 and the beginning of ST3 somehow - as if she kept falling apart after having received a threshold amount of damage.

I submit that anything Eugenic or Augment related is a very sore point of contention with the Klingon Empire and it is this "preservation of our race" aspect that the ambassador was speaking too in ST:IV.

Good idea. Although the very fact that Starfleet supposedly possesses Genesis, the single-shot-kills-planets superweapon, ought to be reason enough to kill as many Genesis experts as possible, Kirk supposedly among them.

Why would a random explosion in the Mutura sector cause a complete breakdown in diplomacy? How did they even know what it was? The spies were still trying to get more info in ST:III so what was causing the outrage? Khan was there. The Khan-augment-smoothhead threat is what set them off.

Khan isn't mentioned in the ST4 courtroom outburst at all, though. In contrast, Genesis is highlighted, as is Kirk.

Timeline-wise, Kruge the Klingon got hold of Genesis data some moments before we heard anybody mention a galactic controversy. Granted, it's only 2.1 hours before, but bad news do travel fast... And possibly Valkris sold the data to somebody else long before delivering it to Kruge?

I suspect some sort of Omega directive level scrubbing of facts well into the 24th century. How did Bashir not know of smooth head Klingons? Why was his career still jeopardy if not for some deep, deep anti-augment bias still in affect for over a century?

The bias is certainly there in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume?", but the very episode also establishes deep ignorance: the Admiral dealing with the debacle seems to misplace Khan temporally by a century or two! It's thus probably more a case of vague irrational public fear than of something involving ongoing government interest.

Was it really the Vulcan's who guaranteed human security or was it a secret pact reached during Archer's time not mess with certain things less face full scale war with the Empire?

Somehow I can't see Klingons agreeing to secrecy deals or indeed any subterfuge with humans at that point...

I could see Klingons being very afraid of Vulcans in the ENT era, perhaps due to some military misadventure against these "pacifists" flying around in giant battleships, and only slowly overcoming that in the following half a century. I could also see Earth remaining unconquered (except by Vulcan, of course) simply because there would have been richer prizes around, though.

Yes, it's ridiculous that they wouldn't have scanned and found the settlement on Ceti Alpha V, but hey, they had to get the ball rolling.

Ridiculous, perhaps, but consistent with previous and subsequent Star Trek. Starships don't have the ability or the incentive to do such scans in general: settlements are only found after a ship settles in close orbit. And Ceti Alpha V was sensor-impregnable anyway, as evidenced by dozens of humans showing up as potential lichen on the screens.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

Yes, it's ridiculous that they wouldn't have scanned and found the settlement on Ceti Alpha V ...

But they did Sonak, that's why Terrell and Chekov beamed down where they did.

They just couldn't get a accurate scan.

 

[sonak]

Yes, it's ridiculous that they wouldn't have scanned and found the settlement on Ceti Alpha V ...

But they did Sonak, that's why Terrell and Chekov beamed down where they did.

They just couldn't get a accurate scan.

well right, but it was only a minor energy reading, possibly indistinguishable from microbes or something. At any rate, I don't know how they confused one planet for another or that there was the wrong number of planets in the system.

 

[T'Girl]

While not overtly stated in the movie, I think it's pretty obvious that the Reliant didn't scan the system in general, they made no effort too.

CA Five was approximately where CA Six should have been in it's orbit at that time [1]. They were looking for a lifeless planet in (conjecture) the systems goldilocks zone.

The planet that Kirk dumped Khan on wouldn't have been "lifeless," it would have been a class M planet, and so not what Terrell was looking for. So he didn't give the locate it should have been in even a passing glance. The same with other planets in the system, the closest four to the sun not interested, any planets further out than CA Six same deal, why scan them?

[1] My personal theory is that when CA Six "exploded," along with a Trekian spacial shock wave, a sizable chunk of it impacted CA Five, altering it's orbit into one that was more elliptical, also dust and debris clouded the atmosphere creating a nuclear winter effect.

CA Five's elliptical orbit was at it's aphelion at the time the Reliant entered the system and purely by co-incident was where CA Six should have been at that time in it's previous orbit.

If the Reliant had scan the system they would detected CA Six's debris field.

Just my take.

 

[Timo]

Scans are great for showing what is there. Not so great for showing what is not there; you need to do more than just scan to notice something missing...

Clearly, Starfleet had some sort of records of the Ceti Alpha system, in that they knew to send the Reliant to check out the desert planet that they knew was there. But sending the ship would have been unnecessary if Starfleet had accurate records of Ceti Alpha - in that case, they could have sent Genesis there right away, without any scouting party.

OTOH, it's obvious that they needed a very special "lifeless planet", as the universe is littered with planets that lack life but the search by the Reliant had been fruitless until then. So the records had to show some fairly accurate things about CA VI, for Starfleet to send the ship there in the first place.

But records can be specific about the nature of a planet without being specific about its location. Establishing an orbit's parameters takes some time, as one has to observe movement and that requires at least some passage of time; establishing chemical composition or the like might in theory be done in a millisecond. Perhaps Starfleet had probe flyby data on the system, giving a good idea about the nature of Ceti Alpha VI (and V, so that Kirk knew to strand Khan there in the first place), but with poor accuracy on orbital parameters.

It's not as if starships would be too concerned with orbital parameters in the first place, as they aren't rockets: if they are off by half a lightsecond, it takes them just a few minutes at most to correct the error and settle to standard orbit. Nor do starships have an obsessive-compulsive need to survey star systems to any sort of detail, because those are a dime in a dozen and not particularly interesting to begin with. Primitive 20th century ideas of how spaceflight "should" be conducted will badly mislead us here...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Push The Button]

I blame Chekov, and to a lesser degree, Kyle. Both of them had actually been to Ceti Alpha five before, you would expect that they would have maybe had a private conversation in the turbolift about it when they first learned that they would be returning to that same system to scout for a Genesis test site.

Kyle: Hey, the Ceti Alpha system, isn't that where…?
Chekov: Oh, you're right! Hey, I wonder if…?
Kyle: Exactly. I mean, it's been fifteen years, do you think..?
Chekov: I'd better tell Captain Terrell. Perhaps we can do a few orbits around five when we're done scanning six, just to see. Admiral Kirk would probably be interested to find out how they're doing after all these years...

 

[trevanian]

The galactic controversy aspect had some scale to it in Bennett's outline, which showed Vulcan in civil war over the idea of Genesis and that Spock died as a result.

I think it is more a matter of Bennett wanting the 23rd century to seem like something that related to contemporary audiences, so you have the whole 'federation spying on everybody/political paranoia feel of a 70s movie' angle for awhile in the Earth scenes. I don't think this is really Bennett's invention, really his reworking of the omitted backstory Sowards developed for ST 2, which had Starfleet abandoning the explore strange new worlds/go boldly credo in favor of just protecting its borders, which would have been massive in impact on Kirk and indeed all of future Trek.

Also, if you look at Bennett's view of Genesis, this in relation to our real history is significant. He wanted something as important and redefining in century 23 as recombinant DNA was in this one, something that changed the way people looked at the world, and so you have a device that, while with great potential, is also essentially the H-est of H-bombs, and all you need to do is watch DR STRANGELOVE and FAIL-SAFE or THE BEDFORD INCIDENT to see what the cultural impact was with respect to THAT.

Audiences of that time were very aware of living with The Bomb (as soon as Reagan was elected, I became convinced we'd not live out the decade --much like Meyer never thought we'd get out of the century intact, as he said in an interview in the Danny Peary book done for OMNI.) Perhaps Bennett thought all this would be subtextually relevant to adult audiences with respect to Genesis?

 

[Anwar]

Makes me wonder why the Trilithium Torpedo from "Generations" (which was a more powerful weapon, much more powerful) never brought up any troubles.

 

[T'Girl]

Only Soran knew how to make one.

 

[2takesfrakes]

If George Lucas' STAR WARS prequels could support all of those layers of overburden regarding taxation of trade routes, Senate sessions and treaty signing, then surely, STAR TREK III could've shown us highlights from some passionate debates within the Federation Council with regard to "Genesis." I think it would've raised the stakes a little higher and made what Grissom was doing there a little more important, showing that while finding Spock was definitely the way to go, there were, in fact, badder fish to fry in this movie. Everything to do with finding out "The Secret" to the Genesis Torpedo was kind of reduced to Kruge's simplistic, direct demands for it. Whilst it would've slowed down the proceedings to show Council members getting on the soap box, it would've been interesting, and added so much more to the movie, if we'd even gotten to see newsclips and soundbites. Just to throw us a bone ...

 

[sonak]

The galactic controversy aspect had some scale to it in Bennett's outline, which showed Vulcan in civil war over the idea of Genesis and that Spock died as a result.

I think it is more a matter of Bennett wanting the 23rd century to seem like something that related to contemporary audiences, so you have the whole 'federation spying on everybody/political paranoia feel of a 70s movie' angle for awhile in the Earth scenes. I don't think this is really Bennett's invention, really his reworking of the omitted backstory Sowards developed for ST 2, which had Starfleet abandoning the explore strange new worlds/go boldly credo in favor of just protecting its borders, which would have been massive in impact on Kirk and indeed all of future Trek.

Also, if you look at Bennett's view of Genesis, this in relation to our real history is significant. He wanted something as important and redefining in century 23 as recombinant DNA was in this one, something that changed the way people looked at the world, and so you have a device that, while with great potential, is also essentially the H-est of H-bombs, and all you need to do is watch DR STRANGELOVE and FAIL-SAFE or THE BEDFORD INCIDENT to see what the cultural impact was with respect to THAT.

Audiences of that time were very aware of living with The Bomb (as soon as Reagan was elected, I became convinced we'd not live out the decade --much like Meyer never thought we'd get out of the century intact, as he said in an interview in the Danny Peary book done for OMNI.) Perhaps Bennett thought all this would be subtextually relevant to adult audiences with respect to Genesis?

That all sounds really cool. Too bad we never got it.

 

[T'Girl]

STAR TREK III could've shown us highlights from some passionate debates within the Federation Council with regard to "Genesis."

Maybe something that could have run behind the credits at the movie's beginning?

 

[Timo]

Both of them had actually been to Ceti Alpha five before

...And to hundreds of other places. I'm not convinced they would remember having been to that particular place. (Did Kirk even tell them they went there? Chekov didn't appear on the bridge during that episode, and neither did Kyle - and Kirk's public announcements are seldom particularly informative.)

Makes me wonder why the Trilithium Torpedo from "Generations" (which was a more powerful weapon, much more powerful) never brought up any troubles.

What is so powerful about it? Genesis dispersed an entire nebula, a phenomenon likely to be trillions of times bigger than a mere star. Also, a trilithium torpedo hitting a single planet would probably accomplish nothing but a local case of poisoning - while Genesis hitting a planet is known to be destructive, and Genesis hitting a star might be pretty spectacular as well.

And yes, galactic controversy surrounding trilithium torpedoes would have to wait until the galaxy learned that somebody had the skills to build one. Romulans might suspect this now, but Klingons probably learned nothing from the late Duras sisters, and the Feds mightn't be telling. Although I sort of think the news would leak anyway, as UFP press would be interested in learning what really happened to Amargosa. Would SFI create a cover story?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[2takesfrakes]

STAR TREK III could've shown us highlights from some passionate debates within the Federation Council with regard to "Genesis."

Maybe something that could have run behind the credits at the movie's beginning?

Yeah, something like that would've cool. Or right before Kirk having drinks with the Admiral and asking him if he can take ENTERPRISE to Genesis, both of them should've been in a very brief meeting where we don't really see it start, but there's all that Top Brass Kirk keeps talking about. They're throwing their weight around, jockeying for position and Admiral Morrow just throws a look at Kirk like, see this shit you started? NEXT SCENE they're in the lounge area having a couple drinks to take the edge off and Kirk makes his plea.

Anything, though, I don't care. The point is, we got nothing, just a couple references to how Khan's misuse of Genesis has caused a political shakeup. Without it, Genesis is really only about Spock's coffin.

It's why David and Savvik beam down. It's why Kirk steals the Enterprise, with some added pressure from Sarek & Bones. All of which makes it convenient for Kruge to be headed that way. And he is such a thug, that all he can think to do is bark demands at anyone Human, once he gets there: "Genesis ... I want it! Tell me the SECRET!!!" You're standing on it, moron! You only have to beam up with a worm, a plant, a rock and some dirt - analyze the living shit out of it and you have the secret of GENESIS. Get off my ass, already, with your pain-in-the-ass, stupid bull-SHIT!!!

 

[Timo]

Kruge isn't about to conduct any research. He wants something he can sell, either commercially or then to his superiors for favors. That's only realistic: out in the battlefield, you don't gather intelligence on enemy plans and fortifications by watching them through binoculars for two weeks and taking measurements - you send a patrol in to kill a lot of people and take a few important ones prisoner, along with any documents of importance you can recognize.

Kruge got what he wanted when he ambushed Saavik and David. But then came Kirk, and his priorities shifted: for one, he would have to kill Kirk or blackmail him to submission in order to survive himself, and for another, doing away with Kirk and/or the Enterprise would cover him in glory perhaps outshining the capture of Genesis secrets.

Kruge actually remains rather logical till the very last. It's a realistic barter he's offering in the final fight: "Give! Me! Genesis!" and I'll spare the lives of your fellow officers, just maybe. Never mind that Kirk's ship and her computer files have been lost now: Kirk is Kirk, a Starfleet Admiral with the wherewithal to obtain those files from other sources.

Timo Saloniemi