Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

[ThankQ]

Maybe I'm being too much of a wuss, but I wish they would have written the evolution episode further into the series after they'd softened up some of the crowd. After I see the next 11, maybe there will be a reason that becomes evident that this episode had to be the first after the introductory episode. I just hate to thing there are people who would enjoy the next 11 who will tune out after tonight because of evolution.

 

[Amaris]

I liked that they got it up front and out of the way. As I said, science shouldn't be apologetic. You shouldn't have to feel sorry for stating a fact, and when you do it in an imaginative way as the folks behind Cosmos has done, all the better to stand firm.

 

[Timewalker]

I loved the "tree of life" imagery.

Probably works better on an HDTV. I could hardly make out the animal images. And while the idea was nice (and, I believe, recycled from the original series, like the ship of the imagination and the cosmic calendar), I didn't really care for the specific design they used, the cartoon animal images just sort of pasted onto the branches.

I think the episode did a good job explaining how and why evolution works and why it's essentially inevitable. But I think Tyson missed an opportunity when he addressed the "only a theory" line. It should've been something like: "Yes, there's a theory of evolution, but there's also a theory of gravity, a theory of electromagnetism, even color theory and music theory. Evolution, like gravity and color and music, is an observed reality. The theory is the set of rules explaining how and why it works, and predicting what it might do in new situations. If the theory is open to question, that just means there are uncertainties about how and why evolution occurs -- not whether it exists at all."

The "Hall of Extinction," or whatever it was called, was a nice addition to the repertoire of metaphors, but it seemed to be given short shrift -- we were told about five "galleries" of mass extinction events but only shown one, without any real discussion about the identities of the creatures we were shown besides the trilobites. I wonder if some of the "extra material" reputed to be included on the cable version tomorrow would include visits to another "hallway" or two.

I think there will be other sequences to do with the "Hall of Extinction" - he did say he'd get back to it another time.

I loved it, and Neil brought the point home with his statement on evolution. I also liked his statement that saying "I don't know" is nothing to be ashamed of, that the shameful act is to claim having all of the answers. This is what science programming should be; clear, direct, and unapologetic.

I can't wait until next week.

Ever since I first saw Cosmos - and read the book - I've been impatient with people acting like "I don't know" is something to be ashamed of. It's an honest answer, and far more honorable than making up some BS and pretending it's true.

It's great that you can't wait until next week! That is exactly how those of us felt who saw Original Cosmos all those years ago. As soon as one episode was over, we were already mentally wishing away the next 7 days so we could have MORE!

I liked that they got it up front and out of the way. As I said, science shouldn't be apologetic. You shouldn't have to feel sorry for stating a fact, and when you do it in an imaginative way as the folks behind Cosmos has done, all the better to stand firm.

Carl Sagan went one step further: He said: "Evolution is a fact." He didn't dance around any business of diplomacy - just said it flat-out and went on from there.

But this version used some excellent examples to show how it happened. I enjoyed the part about the polar bears, since they're not doing so well nowadays with climate change mucking around with their normal seasonal activities.

Whoever thought Disney-style cartoons were a good idea should have been talked out of it. Definitely, to me those are the most annoying thing about this version.

 

[Amaris]

Ever since I first saw Cosmos - and read the book - I've been impatient with people acting like "I don't know" is something to be ashamed of. It's an honest answer, and far more honorable than making up some BS and pretending it's true.

It's great that you can't wait until next week! That is exactly how those of us felt who saw Original Cosmos all those years ago. As soon as one episode was over, we were already mentally wishing away the next 7 days so we could have MORE!

Amen to that, *ahem*, as it were.

Carl Sagan went one step further: He said: "Evolution is a fact." He didn't dance around any business of diplomacy - just said it flat-out and went on from there.

But this version used some excellent examples to show how it happened. I enjoyed the part about the polar bears, since they're not doing so well nowadays with climate change mucking around with their normal seasonal activities.

Whoever thought Disney-style cartoons were a good idea should have been talked out of it. Definitely, to me those are the most annoying thing about this version.

I love the styled animation, but I get what you're saying. I do love Alan Silvestri's score, though. It's flawless, IMO.

 

[Timewalker]

Something I finally noticed about the music... there is a series of notes that are present in both versions of Cosmos and in the score for the movie Contact (in the section where Ellie has gone through the wormhole in the Machine and landed on the beach of the alien planet; the air itself ripples with music). I have no idea if there was any crossover at all among the three productions, or if this is all some coincidence, but I did hear them.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Something I finally noticed about the music... there is a series of notes that are present in both versions of Cosmos and in the score for the movie Contact (in the section where Ellie has gone through the wormhole in the Machine and landed on the beach of the alien planet; the air itself ripples with music). I have no idea if there was any crossover at all among the three productions, or if this is all some coincidence, but I did hear them.

The new version has the same composer as Contact, Alan Silvestri.

 

[Timewalker]

Something I finally noticed about the music... there is a series of notes that are present in both versions of Cosmos and in the score for the movie Contact (in the section where Ellie has gone through the wormhole in the Machine and landed on the beach of the alien planet; the air itself ripples with music). I have no idea if there was any crossover at all among the three productions, or if this is all some coincidence, but I did hear them.

The new version has the same composer as Contact, Alan Silvestri.

Ah, that must be it. Thanks. At first I thought I was hearing things, but I've seen Contact over a dozen times, and the music in that scene is not something I'll ever forget.

So I take it this is one more homage to Carl Sagan?

 

[Forbin]

Maybe I'm being too much of a wuss, but I wish they would have written the evolution episode further into the series after they'd softened up some of the crowd. After I see the next 11, maybe there will be a reason that becomes evident that this episode had to be the first after the introductory episode. I just hate to thing there are people who would enjoy the next 11 who will tune out after tonight because of evolution.

Then they're idiots, and they deserve to remain in ignorance.
So there.

 

[Christopher]

Maybe I'm being too much of a wuss, but I wish they would have written the evolution episode further into the series after they'd softened up some of the crowd. After I see the next 11, maybe there will be a reason that becomes evident that this episode had to be the first after the introductory episode. I just hate to thing there are people who would enjoy the next 11 who will tune out after tonight because of evolution.

The thing is, that wouldn't really be possible. Evolution is such a fundamental, pervasive reality that it's impossible to talk about any topic in the biological sciences without acknowledging the truth of evolution. It's as fundamental to a discussion of life sciences as gravitation is to a discussion of astrophysics. That's the whole reason that evolution denial is so stupid and harmful -- because it makes it impossible to engage with the life sciences at all. So unless they wanted this show to be strictly about astrophysics and inanimate objects and avoid talking about living things altogether, they had to address evolution up front.

 

[Spider]

Maybe I'm being too much of a wuss, but I wish they would have written the evolution episode further into the series after they'd softened up some of the crowd. After I see the next 11, maybe there will be a reason that becomes evident that this episode had to be the first after the introductory episode. I just hate to thing there are people who would enjoy the next 11 who will tune out after tonight because of evolution.

The thing is, that wouldn't really be possible. Evolution is such a fundamental, pervasive reality that it's impossible to talk about any topic in the biological sciences without acknowledging the truth of evolution. It's as fundamental to a discussion of life sciences as gravitation is to a discussion of astrophysics. That's the whole reason that evolution denial is so stupid and harmful -- because it makes it impossible to engage with the life sciences at all. So unless they wanted this show to be strictly about astrophysics and inanimate objects and avoid talking about living things altogether, they had to address evolution up front.

And yet I know some people who don't believe that evolution is a fact. Yes, they are religious and their views come from that. They will accept the earth is older than the Bible says it is, and they'll even admit that some of the stories in the old testament are just that, stories. But evolution seems to be a line they won't cross, it's as if when they do, they lose their grip on their faith or something.

 

[auntiehill]

Maybe I'm being too much of a wuss, but I wish they would have written the evolution episode further into the series after they'd softened up some of the crowd. After I see the next 11, maybe there will be a reason that becomes evident that this episode had to be the first after the introductory episode. I just hate to thing there are people who would enjoy the next 11 who will tune out after tonight because of evolution.

Then they're idiots, and they deserve to remain in ignorance.
So there.

My tthoughts exactly. If they're that stupid, they probably wouldn't watch Cosmos in the first place.

 

[Nerroth]

I'm guessing that the sixth, as-yet-unmarked hallway in the Halls of Extinction (the one he'll get back to later) will end up covering the Holocene extinction.

 

[Christopher]

And yet I know some people who don't believe that evolution is a fact. Yes, they are religious and their views come from that. They will accept the earth is older than the Bible says it is, and they'll even admit that some of the stories in the old testament are just that, stories. But evolution seems to be a line they won't cross, it's as if when they do, they lose their grip on their faith or something.

Then they will simply be unable to engage with the series at all. As I said, it is impossible to discuss modern biology to any extent without discussing evolution. A science series has no obligation to cater to beliefs that are conclusively wrong. Should Tyson avoid acknowledging that the Earth is round to avoid alienating Flat-Earthers? If they believe anything so counterfactual, they're a lost cause to begin with.

The goal here is not to change the minds of people whose minds are already closed to change despite overwhelming evidence. The goal is to inoculate the young and the undecided against the attempts of those people to lead them astray. Creationists have gotten pretty good at putting forward their propaganda, influencing state legislatures and building a so-called "museum," so it's high time science started making its voice heard more clearly to counter their rhetoric. This isn't about changing creationists' minds. It's about fighting their lies. Because somebody damn well better.

 

[Timewalker]

I'm guessing that the sixth, as-yet-unmarked hallway in the Halls of Extinction (the one he'll get back to later) will end up covering the Holocene extinction.

If Sagan himself had done a sequence like this, the final hallway would be the current list of lifeforms on the endangered species list, plus humans. That would mirror the sequence in "Who Speaks for Earth"? when he comes back to Earth and discovers that WWIII has happened and destroyed everything.

 

[Forbin]

I wonder if this episode was pre-empted in Kansas by a prayer meeting.
Or the whole series.

 

[davejames]

Carl Sagan went one step further: He said: "Evolution is a fact." He didn't dance around any business of diplomacy - just said it flat-out and went on from there.

Yeah having just rewatched the second episode of the original Cosmos, it was striking just how much more careful and diplomatic Tyson was being on the subject compared to Sagan.

And I also have to say I thought the original episode flowed a lot better and explained evolution in a much more concise way. The new one seemed to bounce around too much and take too many little detours (from the evolution of dogs, to the eye, to the Hall of Extinction, to the DNA of trees, to a visit to Titan...).

Tyson got in a lot of good points, but I imagine for a kid or a newbie to the subject, the original episode would have been much more effective and easy to follow.

 

[FPAlpha]

Maybe I'm being too much of a wuss, but I wish they would have written the evolution episode further into the series after they'd softened up some of the crowd. After I see the next 11, maybe there will be a reason that becomes evident that this episode had to be the first after the introductory episode. I just hate to thing there are people who would enjoy the next 11 who will tune out after tonight because of evolution.

Anyone who is afraid of evolution or outright denies it won't watch the show so there is no point in sugarcoating it for whatever reason.

Science is beholden to truth alone and evolution is fact so there you go.

 

[auntiehill]

Carl Sagan went one step further: He said: "Evolution is a fact." He didn't dance around any business of diplomacy - just said it flat-out and went on from there.

Yeah having just rewatched the second episode of the original Cosmos, it was striking just how much more careful and diplomatic Tyson was being on the subject compared to Sagan.

And I also have to say I thought the original episode flowed a lot better and explained evolution in a much more concise way. The new one seemed to bounce around too much and take too many little detours (from the evolution of dogs, to the eye, to the Hall of Extinction, to the DNA of trees, to a visit to Titan...).

Tyson got in a lot of good points, but I imagine for a kid or a newbie to the subject, the original episode would have been much more effective and easy to follow.

I would image that a lot of jumping around is due to the fact that many in the target audience have the attention span of a fruit fly, and FOX is afraid people will get bored and change the channel.

 

[gturner]

I have no idea why a show about the cosmos would discuss evolution, since evolution is utterly irrelevant on such scales.

The combined mass of all evolved organisms in our solar system is less than 600e12 kg out of a total mass of about 2.0e30 kg. For every 1 kg of life, there are 3,300,000,000,000,000 kg of non-living gas and rock. If new Cosmos episodes had been streaming ever since the Big Bang, the show literally airing for billions and billions of years with no reruns, and each bit of mass was given equal time, life should only get mentioned for about 2.7 seconds.

But the self-important narcissistic developers of the show have already burned almost an entire episode on the subject, one that is utterly irrelevant cosmologically.

 

[FPAlpha]

Because the show is not about astrophysics but science in general