Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

[Zaku]

In all fairness what I recall of the premise wasn't bad in itself, but the execution was brutal. The idea that these inhabitants (three of them anyway) aboard a generation ship (with no understanding that they are aboard a space ship) inadvertently learn the true nature of their existence and that the ship is in danger. They then take it upon themselves to search for a way to save the ship and everyone aboard even though most don't believe they are actually living in an artificial world.

If you liked the premise, Ellison expanded its original screeplay for the series much better in Phoenix Without Ashes.

 

[Nebusj]

The whole concept of the Moon flying through space has to be just ignored to focus on an episode's given story. Otherwise the whole thing falls apart. This really was a case of someone having an idea and not really thinking it through. No respectable SF writer would have conceived of such a thing.

Well, James Blish did tolerably well with it.

If you're referring to Cities in Flight, the mass of, say, Manhattan Island is minuscule compared to the mass of the Moon. It's like the difference between moving a boulder and moving a mountain.

You've forgotten some of Earthman, Come Home (understandably, as the book is rather overpacked). Amalfi and the New Yorkers use spindizzy drives to send the planet He hurtling into deep space, on contract; and they later use the same gimmick to destroy Vega's Orbital Fortress by hitting it with a planet. The New Yorkers even ride the latter planet off to the Greater Magellanic Cloud.

In The Triumph Of Time we learn the Hevians have mastered the control of their spindizzies and used the planet to visit a region of intergalactic space where the universe is coming to an end, too.

(I'd be very surprised if Doc Smith or Edmund Hamilton didn't do some planet-flinging, too, but I'm not well-read in either. Smith might have just leapt right to warring parties tossing universes at one another anyway.)

 

[Commishsleer]

I think I managed to miss The Starlost, or if I ever saw any of it, it didn't leave a clear impression. But I watched Space: 1999, and I seem to recall liking it enough, but I didn't have much taste as a kid. I was aware, though, how absurd its premise was.

Yes I remember liking it as a child too. I came in at the 2nd or 3rd episode so for all I know they had some valid explanation for what happened.
I liked the cast, the commanders, the professor guy and they had an Aussie in it until Maya appeared (but I liked her too).
And I'm a sucker for those Pommie spaceships (the Eagle I think).
I haven't seen it since its initial run so maybe I wouldn't like it nowadays.
I'm thinking now how fast must Luna be travelling (approx 50 times the speed of light I'm guessing). Then how fast must those Eagle spaceships be able to travel if they go to an inhabited planet every week, muck about there and then catch up with Luna. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong though.

 

[Maurice]

If you liked the premise, Ellison expanded its original screeplay for the series much better in [Phoenix Without Ashes].

I happen to like reading Ellison, but I read that comic adaptation and found it utterly meh.

 

[trevanian]

I've never gotten through the Ed Bryant authorized novelization either, though Ellison's long intro is worth reading.

The real gem that came out of STARLOST is Ben Bova's novel THE STARCROSSED, which is kind of a futuristic comic spin (in the vein of NETWORK) on THE STARLOST. If you find the 70s-era paperback, there is a picture of the lead character on the cover that is unmistakably Ellison. Bova worked on the show for awhile too, as did Doug Trumbull. Talk about squandering a wealth of talent!

 

[Zaku]

An interesting piece by Norman Klenman, who was called in to work on The Starlost because the production team were unable to deal with Ellison
From: http://www.snowcrest.net/fox/star2.html

I will tell now the true story behind the pilot for this series. Harlan Ellison even in those days had a reputation as a fine scifi writer, mostly stories, though he was now working in TV. My friend Bill Davidson, a former collaborator on two feature films with me in Canada, was made producer of the series and found Ellison was already involved by Baton (CFTO Toronto) and NBC-20th Fox, as writer of the "bible" or story idea, and the key opening episode. Davidson and the station had, however, enormous problems with Ellison. I think he suffered from inflated ego. A talent, but an ego -- I suppose good creative people have egos by their very nature. They could not get anywhere with him. Canada had few professional TV drama writers, none to my knowledge still living there and experienced in network hour long dramas. Ellison got in touch with the top scifi writers, but nothing shootable emerged after weeks, maybe months. Ellison was either fired or quit. I was working in Hollwyood writing drama for Universal, 20th, etc., but was also a Canadian, and therefore could be "imported" without disturbing the Canadian content rules for that period re shooting in Canada (rules I never understood). I was invited, in fact, pursued by Arthur Weinthall, head of production for CTV network, to please come and be story editor. I did not wish to go back to Toronto (in hot, humid summers) but Bill was an old friend. First thing when I was hired I phoned Ellison whom I had never met. I spoke to him candidly bvy phone as a fellow writer and member of the Writers Guild West, but had never had met him. I said plainly, Harlan, I'm not a science fiction writer and know nothing about it, but I've written for CBC-TV, BBC-TV, and here in network TV, so hope I can handle it. He was explosive and acidic, at me, at Davidson, at CTV and hung up on me.

Well, back in Toronto I read for the first time the bible, and could barely stay awake reading it. Worse, I read his draft of the opening episode and nearly got on a plane back to LA. It was that bad in my eyes: boring, turgic, biblical, heavy, and dull. What more can I say? And this from a man of his reputation. Still, it takes all kinds. I rewrote the script that they shot, and subsequently hired the writers, chose the themes, wrote four original, did massive rewriting on 8 more but took only minimal credits as some of these were done by fine WGA writers from whom I did n ot wish to steal credits. I did minimal editing and rewriting on the last four. The series ended and I returned to LA. Bill was a fine producer, and all the directors were talented. The technical innovations and the contribution by Ben Bova, fine man though was, and talented, fell flat. CFTO without help or experience had to manufacture from the ground up the early technial materials essential to the space aspects of the show. The cast were fine, and Bill a pleasure as always to work for.

Some time later I learned Ellison trashed Bill and me in a US sleazemag. He probably got money for it. Later, he behaved in an odd way at a WGA film club screening and it hit the pages of the WGA magazine. I wrote a brief, funny (I thought) tongue in cheek response, because the article carried word that Harlan had actually apologised for his behaviour at the club. I thought that deserved notice, and a welcome retreat from the ego inflation for which he was famous. The article didn't appear. Instead his buddy, the editor of the journal, forwarded my light hearted note to Ellison. I was in Vancouver at the time opening my new TV station there. The note could only be described as poison pen. It was nasty. Insulting, in fact. I thought about it, and then, realizing that life is short, I returned the letter to him with a note saying that, look, this isn't serious, don't take it that way, if I pass on do you want this awful letter you wrote to be found and shown to who knows how many decent folk? Here it is, destroy it. He (if you can believe this) actually mailed it back to me. He was still nasty, but commended my graciousness. That, I hoped, is where the matter would end. But I understand that even years later he was still smoldering inside about his Starlost "treatment". Now the payoff: He had spoke constantly around the WGA about this "treatment". He submitted his script of Episode one of the Starlost for judgment in the union awards, and won first prize for hour drama. Did he submit his awful (in my view) draft, or the one I rewrote??? I shall never know. I really don't care, either. The world is full of wonderful things without bad feelings

 

[Warped9]

Ellison is one weird guy.

 

[Christopher]

I've never understood why Ellison kept trying to work in TV when he hated it so much. I mean, he couldn't bear to have his words or ideas altered by other people, but TV is clearly a collaborative exercise, so why was he even surprised when he wasn't able to get his way all the time? It seems to me that if you don't want to compromise, you just don't choose to enter into a collaboration.

 

[Warped9]

I've never understood why Ellison kept trying to work in TV when he hated it so much. I mean, he couldn't bear to have his words or ideas altered by other people, but TV is clearly a collaborative exercise, so why was he even surprised when he wasn't able to get his way all the time? It seems to me that if you don't want to compromise, you just don't choose to enter into a collaboration.

Logic and retionality from a human being? Really?

 

[Christopher]

Plenty of human beings are able to put their egos in check enough to participate gainfully in collaborations. Plenty of other human beings recognize that collaboration doesn't suit them and choose to work solo.

 

[Warped9]

Plenty of human beings are able to put their egos in check enough to participate gainfully in collaborations. Plenty of other human beings recognize that collaboration doesn't suit them and choose to work solo.

Yeah, but we're talking about Ellison.

 

[Christopher]

Uhh, which is my point -- that it's not generic human behavior, it's Ellison behavior. So your prior comment is confusing.

 

[Warped9]

I wonder if by chance Janice Lester could be a distant descendent of Ellison. Hmm...

 

[Andrew_Kearley]

Well, despite the negative comments upthread, Space: 1999 series 1 is the greatest space opera type show ever made. What's interesting in the context of this thread is the way that Star Trek season 3 is perceived as going much serious than the previous seasons - whereas one of the "flaws" Freiberger identified in Space: 1999 was its lack of humour, which is why it went in the opposite direction to Trek, injecting lots of appalling jokes and humour into the show. Despite all that, I'm also going to speak up for Freiberger, because he was in exactly the same situation as he was in Trek: an executive producer (Roddenberry in the one case, Gerry Anderson in the other) who basically washed his hands of the whole show, and let Freiberger get on with it.

 

[trevanian]

Plenty of human beings are able to put their egos in check enough to participate gainfully in collaborations. Plenty of other human beings recognize that collaboration doesn't suit them and choose to work solo.

"What, and leave show biz?"

That line is a cliche (and I think it is the last line of that novel I mentioned above too), but it is still true.

Plus, when you're captivated by a particular medium, as Ellison clearly is with cinema and even the idea of TV, you're going to be drawn back to it like a moth to flame (really big on cliche today, sorry, a seriously downer day.)

His I ROBOT script reflects his dedication to bring something across that was more than lowest common denominator. It doesn't always work, but it tries, and the visuals very much presage the kinds of shots that we've only been able to do in the digital era, so he was setting the bar pretty high.

 

[Zaku]

An interesting bit from Somehow, I Don’t Think We’re In Kansas, Toto, an essay by Ellison about his experience on Starlost (at this point he had already left the production):

At one point, when the roof started falling in on them, they called Gene Roddenberry, the successful creator of Star Trek, and they offered him fifty percent of the show if he’d come up and produce the show out of trouble for them.
Gene laughed at them and said what did he need fifty percent of a loser for, he had a hundred percent of two winners of his own. They said they could understand that, but did he have someone else in mind whom he could recommend as producer?
Gene said, sure he did.
They made the mistake of asking him who.
He said, “Harlan Ellison. If you hadn’t fucked him over so badly, he could have done a good job for you.”
Then he hung up on them

Any Star Trek historian can confirm this?

 

[trevanian]

Maybe GR should have recommended Freiberger, just so the guy's streak with taking on sf shows about to be cancelled would be even more complete.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Barbara Bain injected a lot of unintentional humor in the show. Landau also from time to time. Bain could be catatonic one moment and cringe-worthy the next. Some moments she even forgot to blink on extra-long takes. For what it's worth they were equally commendable on MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, so perhaps it was bad direction in 1999 or real-life marital issues.

Probably both, but amazingly she and Landau only divorced in the early 1990's-my guess is that they stuck with each other to raise Juliet (Landau), and after she grew up and left the house, it was complete splitsville. Bad humor or not, Space: 1999 was bogus from Day One, as I've said before, and nothing Freiberger could do could even save it.

His I ROBOT script reflects his dedication to bring something across that was more than lowest common denominator. It doesn't always work, but it tries, and the visuals very much presage the kinds of shots that we've only been able to do in the digital era, so he was setting the bar pretty high.

Although his script for I, Robot was most likely great, nobody wants to risk pissing him off, and so, it was never taken into consideration or even produced-the price he's paying for being the way he was before.

 

[Maurice]

The trouble with these he said/she said type stories is that we can only guess where the truth actually lies. I was pretty skeptical about Elliison's behavior re "City" until I read his first draft and, putting my producer hat on, had to admit that Roddenberry, Justman et al had grossly exaggerated the supposed unfilmability of it. This isn't to say the first draft was filmable as a Trek episode, or that Ellison wasn't a bear to work with, but it was also painfully obvious that the other parties were exaggerating the living fuck out of their claim re the actual script. My guess is that in retelling the story over and over and the back and forth with Ellison everyone lost track of what actually happened and the tale got taller over time on both sides.

One of these days I'll read the "City" first draft again and I'll "give notes" on it as I would on any other script, and I'll point out exactly what I think is wrong with it as a TV script and as a Trek episode. That should be fun.

As to Starlost, I can't say which draft of Ellison's script was made into the comic adaptation, but my recollection was that it was dramatically inert. If this is an example of what he thought the first episode should be, it didn't speak well for the series.

Getting back to Mr. Freiberger, I did some research into his career a while back in order to correct a number of dubious claims on the Wikipedia entry about him, and one thing that became apparent was that there may have been no Season 2 of 1999 without someone like him being hired, as he pitched Lew Grade on changes that interested him enough to back a second series:

"We had meetings with Abe Mandell and Gerry Anderson, and I went over to England for three weeks to discuss the feasibility of continuing the series. We had to generate enough enthusiasm and confidence in Mandell and Lew Grade's organization to make it a viable series the second year. Gerry and I sold them on continuing the series based on this new character Maya."
Fred Freiberger, Starlog 40, p58-61, 1980

 

[Andrew_Kearley]

Bad humor or not, Space: 1999 was bogus from Day One, as I've said before, and nothing Freiberger could do could even save it.

It didn't need saving, it was already a masterpiece.