NBA 2012-13 Discussion

[gblews]

Wouldn't that also qualify as a lose-lose?

Hmm, I guess so. But what I meant was that no matter who wins, I get something I want out of it.

Both teams are outstanding road teams, so home court advantage might be overstated...

If it were in the 22111 format, I would definitely agree with you. But from what I have seen, the 2-3-2 makes all the difference in the world (when comes to HCA).

You figure each team is good for one road win. I don't see either team losing more than one home game. That being the case, Miami has the advantage because their one road win will, at the least, ensure the series comes back to Miami for the last two games (unless Miami has been significantly overrated and they manage to lose both of the first 2).

IMO, the Spurs best chance will be if they can get a split of the first two, come home and win 2 of 3, and go back to Miami with a chance to close out in game 6. But that will still mean getting 2 on the road. If Spurs allow it to go to 7...well, how many times has the home team lost a game 7 at home in the NBA Finals?

Having those last 2 at home is what makes HCA in the Finals such an advantage. In the 22111, game 6 would be played in San Antonio.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Wouldn't that also qualify as a lose-lose?

Hmm, I guess so. But what I meant was that no matter who wins, I get something I want out of it.

The reason I said that is that what you get is a negative (an absence of something happening), which means, either way, you're guaranteed to get one thing you don't like to happen.

 

[gblews]

Wouldn't that also qualify as a lose-lose?

Hmm, I guess so. But what I meant was that no matter who wins, I get something I want out of it.

The reason I said that is that what you get is a "negative (an absence of something happening), which means, either way, you're guaranteed to get one thing you don't like to happen.

Umm, okay. Doesn't make anything I wrote untrue. One man's negative" is another's "positive".

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Negative as in an absence. Somebody's absence of something happening is not the same as somebody else's something happening. I've never thought that a win-win could also be a lose-lose before and I was trying to explain why I thought that in this situation.

Or it could just be I'm a pessimist. After all, I am a Sixers fan.

 

[HaventGotALife]

It's amazing what the Miami Heat have done so far in the three years they have been together. You have to go back to the 1996-98 Chicago Bulls to find a 3-time Conference Champion in the Eastern Conference, back to the 2000-02 LA Lakers to find a 3-time Conference Champion in the NBA.

Lebron James turned in his best season, they are averaging 61 wins per season through three (by winning percentage since they played 66 games last year). They have 1 NBA Championship and could win another one before this season ends. Indiana presented some unique challenges to the Miami Heat because of their lack of strong interior play. They made Roy Hibbert look like Shaquille O'Neal and that worries me when they face Tim Duncan. But if they pull this off, get their third title in franchise history (and since 2005-06), they will tie themselves with the Phialdelphia 76ers, Golden State Warriors, and Detroit Pistons for 5th-best all-time.

All in all, I think if they win this title, we can call Lebron's tenure in Miami a success. If they lose, they will have something to prove next season. Remember, Danny Granger and Derrick Rose will be back next season. Teams like Washington (John Wall, Bradley Beal, Emeka Okafor, Nene, #3 overall pick) and Cleveland (Kyrie Irving, #1 overall pick, Dion Waiters, Tristan Thompson) look to be much improved next season. Remember, Detroit and Atlanta have deep pockets this summer to reshape their rosters. Brooklyn is a year older. And new salary cap restrictions will be put in place before the beginning of next season (the graduated Luxury Tax) that will affect the Miami Heat's roster. Dwyane Wade looks old and has had 2 straight postseasons with knee injuries that have limited his effectiveness.

Out west, San Antonio and Memphis may not be a threat, but Russell Westbrook will be back. Dwight Howard and Chris Paul will be free agents, possibly changing the outcome in the Western Conference. My point to all this is that Miami may not have as clear of a shot at the second NBA title with Lebron next season as they have right now. That will be great from a competitive standpoint, but not from the Heat's point-of-view.

Here's hoping they beat Duncan's Spurs, who have never lost in the NBA Finals.

 

[Borgminister]

I've got the Spurs as sentimental favorites...

 

[gblews]

It's amazing what the Miami Heat have done so far in the three years they have been together. You have to go back to the 1996-98 Chicago Bulls to find a 3-time Conference Champion in the Eastern Conference, back to the 2000-02 LA Lakers to find a 3-time Conference Champion in the NBA.

The Heat have done well, but it is the east, afterall, so kind of mitigates the accomplishment, IMO. If they'd done it in the west, well that would have been something.

But if they pull this off, get their third title in franchise history (and since 2005-06), they will tie themselves with the Phialdelphia 76ers, Golden State Warriors, and Detroit Pistons for 5th-best all-time.

Wait, the Warriors have 3 championships? I haven't put the Google on this yet. Did they win 2 when the franchise was in Philly? I know they've only won 1 since coming to the Bay Area.

All in all, I think if they win this title, we can call Lebron's tenure in Miami a success. If they lose, they will have something to prove next season. Remember, Danny Granger and Derrick Rose will be back next season. Teams like Washington (John Wall, Bradley Beal, Emeka Okafor, Nene, #3 overall pick) and Cleveland (Kyrie Irving, #1 overall pick, Dion Waiters, Tristan Thompson) look to be much improved next season. Remember, Detroit and Atlanta have deep pockets this summer to reshape their rosters. Brooklyn is a year older. And new salary cap restrictions will be put in place before the beginning of next season (the graduated Luxury Tax) that will affect the Miami Heat's roster. Dwyane Wade looks old and has had 2 straight postseasons with knee injuries that have limited his effectiveness.

Out west, San Antonio and Memphis may not be a threat, but Russell Westbrook will be back. Dwight Howard and Chris Paul will be free agents, possibly changing the outcome in the Western Conference. My point to all this is that Miami may not have as clear of a shot at the second NBA title with Lebron next season as they have right now. That will be great from a competitive standpoint, but not from the Heat's point-of-view.

Here's hoping they beat Duncan's Spurs, who have never lost in the NBA Finals.

Considering how hard it is to win an NBA championship, I think you could call LeBron's decision to go to Miami a success after last season.

Barring injuries (to Miami and Indy), I don't think any of the teams you mention will be serious championship contenders next season. Chicago might be if they can somehow manage to find a consistent offensive player besides Rose. So, you don't like the Knicks? Actually, they are as flawed a group as any in the east -- an odd mix of offensive talent who still don't play much deffense.

You don't think SA or Mem will be a threat next year? As long as the Spurs have Pop, Manu, Parker, and Duncan, they can contend. The Grizz just need to hold onto their coach and they will too, I think. But I agree, OKC will be back in the thick of the west mix next season.

The Heat have looked like a team trying to go back to back this playoffs, kind of ragged when they shouldn't -- that happens when you're trying to repeat. OTOH, their lack of competent bigs may really be a problem for them. I am looking forward to this Finals like I haven't since the Lakers reached down the throats of the Celts and took out their hearts in 2010.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

They won one in San Francisco, they won one NBA championship in Philly with Paul Arizin in 1956, and they have a BAA Championship in 1947 (make of that what you will).

 

[HaventGotALife]

It's amazing what the Miami Heat have done so far in the three years they have been together. You have to go back to the 1996-98 Chicago Bulls to find a 3-time Conference Champion in the Eastern Conference, back to the 2000-02 LA Lakers to find a 3-time Conference Champion in the NBA.

The Heat have done well, but it is the east, afterall, so kind of mitigates the accomplishment, IMO. If they'd done it in the west, well that would have been something.

But if they pull this off, get their third title in franchise history (and since 2005-06), they will tie themselves with the Phialdelphia 76ers, Golden State Warriors, and Detroit Pistons for 5th-best all-time.

Wait, the Warriors have 3 championships? I haven't put the Google on this yet. Did they win 2 when the franchise was in Philly? I know they've only won 1 since coming to the Bay Area.

All in all, I think if they win this title, we can call Lebron's tenure in Miami a success. If they lose, they will have something to prove next season. Remember, Danny Granger and Derrick Rose will be back next season. Teams like Washington (John Wall, Bradley Beal, Emeka Okafor, Nene, #3 overall pick) and Cleveland (Kyrie Irving, #1 overall pick, Dion Waiters, Tristan Thompson) look to be much improved next season. Remember, Detroit and Atlanta have deep pockets this summer to reshape their rosters. Brooklyn is a year older. And new salary cap restrictions will be put in place before the beginning of next season (the graduated Luxury Tax) that will affect the Miami Heat's roster. Dwyane Wade looks old and has had 2 straight postseasons with knee injuries that have limited his effectiveness.

Out west, San Antonio and Memphis may not be a threat, but Russell Westbrook will be back. Dwight Howard and Chris Paul will be free agents, possibly changing the outcome in the Western Conference. My point to all this is that Miami may not have as clear of a shot at the second NBA title with Lebron next season as they have right now. That will be great from a competitive standpoint, but not from the Heat's point-of-view.

Here's hoping they beat Duncan's Spurs, who have never lost in the NBA Finals.

Considering how hard it is to win an NBA championship, I think you could call LeBron's decision to go to Miami a success after last season.

Barring injuries (to Miami and Indy), I don't think any of the teams you mention will be serious championship contenders next season. Chicago might be if they can somehow manage to find a consistent offensive player besides Rose. So, you don't like the Knicks? Actually, they are as flawed a group as any in the east -- an odd mix of offensive talent who still don't play much deffense.

You don't think SA or Mem will be a threat next year? As long as the Spurs have Pop, Manu, Parker, and Duncan, they can contend. The Grizz just need to hold onto their coach and they will too, I think. But I agree, OKC will be back in the thick of the west mix next season.

The Heat have looked like a team trying to go back to back this playoffs, kind of ragged when they shouldn't -- that happens when you're trying to repeat. OTOH, their lack of competent bigs may really be a problem for them. I am looking forward to this Finals like I haven't since the Lakers reached down the throats of the Celts and took out their hearts in 2010.

I think Indiana is a real Championship contender. Paul George and Danny Granger will carry the offense, they move Lance Stephenson into the sixth man role, much better for him. They do what every contending team traditionally does--they rebound the basketball, defend the opponent, and are fearless--and they are one of my favorite teams.

Watching Chicago this season, with Marco Belinelli and Nate Robinson, Luol Deng, Carlos Boozer, and Joakim Noah, they have all the talent to win a Championship if Derrick Rose comes back. I agree their offense revolved too much around Rose in the 2011 and 2012 seasons. However, this group has gone into an opposing arena and won a game seven when they were injured and sick. Add Rose to that mix, I expect them to be the number 1 contenders entering next season, not Miami.

I don't expect the Pistons and Hawks, Cavaliers and Wizards to contend (unless either the Pistons land Chris Paul, or the Hawks nail both Paul and Howard). I expect them to make the East more competitive, and I forgot to mention Toronto with Rudy Gay. I expect them to make the Conference tougher to win by grinding down the 3-time Conference Champion.

New York is not going to shoot the ball like it did this season. If they win 45 games next season, as constructed, they will meet my expectations. I don't think they are going to contend again. They will have to play either Miami, Indiana, Brooklyn, or Chicago in the first round next year. Good luck getting out of the first round of the playoffs. I have said, not here, that Carmelo Anthony is Bernard King, not Larry Bird to Lebron's Magic Johnson. He's just not that good.

 

[gblews]

Watching Chicago this season, with Marco Belinelli and Nate Robinson, Luol Deng, Carlos Boozer, and Joakim Noah, they have all the talent to win a Championship if Derrick Rose comes back. I agree their offense revolved too much around Rose in the 2011 and 2012 seasons. However, this group has gone into an opposing arena and won a game seven when they were injured and sick. Add Rose to that mix, I expect them to be the number 1 contenders entering next season, not Miami.

The Bulls don't have that other "dog" a team needs in order to win a championship. They still do it too much by commitee. You have to have a couple of guys who can score when the defense is tight and physical in the last minutes of late round playoff games on the road. The Bulls have only one. Deng is good, but he has not shown himself to be one of those guys. Carlos Boozer DEFINITELY isn't. If they get that "other" guy, though, with the way they defend and rebound, they can get a ring.

I have said, not here, that Carmelo Anthony is Bernard King, not Larry Bird to Lebron's Magic Johnson. He's just not that good.

I wouldn't even call Melo a Bernard King, because Bernard was tough, but I do get your point.

 

[gblews]

They won one in San Francisco, they won one NBA championship in Philly with Paul Arizin in 1956, and they have a BAA Championship in 1947 (make of that what you will).

BAA? What, is that like AAU?

So, Haven'tGotaLife, that means the if the Heat wins their third, the Warriors won't be at the party at the 3 time winner's club.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

They won one in San Francisco, they won one NBA championship in Philly with Paul Arizin in 1956, and they have a BAA Championship in 1947 (make of that what you will).

BAA? What, is that like AAU?

So, Haven'tGotaLife, that means the if the Heat wins their third, the Warriors won't be at the party at the 3 time winner's club.

Basketball Association of America. It merged with the National Basketball League to form the National Basketball Association. It's home to the Warriors, the Celtics, and the Knicks.

 

[HaventGotALife]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmi91E3SMiI[/yt]

Today is the 12th anniversary of this game. Made me believe someone could knock off the Lakers.

 

[Obiwansolo18]

This game tonight has me so pumped up. I want it to be 9 already.

 

[HaventGotALife]

This game tonight has me so pumped up. I want it to be 9 already.

Here we go...who are you rooting for?

 

[Obiwansolo18]

Rooting for no one just want a good series.

 

[gblews]

I'll be damned, Heat are running the triangle offense (not very well, but running it nonetheless).

 

[Dream]

Good game Spurs.

Tony Parker with the incredible final shot! Talk about beating the clock by milliseconds!

 

[Neroon]

Indeed, that was by the barest of margins. I had to keep looking at the replay myself, not that I have the most observant eyes to begin with. It's hard to believe that Miami lost the game given how well they seemed to play the first 3 quarters. But the Spurs, while very talented, are among the most disciplined of teams, as well. They had 4 turnovers ... the whole game! The series is a long way from over, but this was tremendous, to take game 1 on the Heat's home floor. I can honestly say I don't care who wins, because I enjoy both teams tremendously.

Tim Duncan... HAS to be on the NBA's all-time Top 50, with a good case for being among the best power forwards ever

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Tim Duncan isn't just a Top 50. He should be a Top 10.

Jordan, Magic, Byrd, Wilt, Robertson, and Kareem are really the only players I'd put above him. There's an argument for Karl Malone, but the sheer efficiency and performance when it matters that Duncan brings to the table puts him ahead. I'd honestly put him above Shaq and that says quite a lot (Shaq is hurt by his poor freethrow performance).