Rogue Reviews thread [Read-only] [SPOILERS, no doubt]

[AntonyF]

I'm feeling dejected after watching the new movie yesterday, so had to come spew some thoughts. Because I have a feeling of disappointment.

I'm trying to work out where my mood changed. I was enjoying the movie SO frigging much. Then it jumped the shark, and I found my interest and excitement waned. And it came at the moment... where he says he's Khan.

I did cringe when it happened, but it seems that's when I started to switch off. I'm not sure why I'm so against it... other than we've been hearing it for two years. It's just such old news, and they've denied it again and again (Simon Pegg: "It’s not Khan. That’s a myth."). So this doesn't feel like a surprise, it feels like a trick. And it feels like an OLD trick, something we've heard about for years.

Then it just got more and more jump the sharky (if that's possible). Kirk 'dying', you know he won't die and they set up the tribble thing earlier clearly so no drama there. The old Spock dear god no... that was the worst point. It added NOTHING. We've launched the new Trek, no need for him there - and it's possibly the worst instance of deus ex machina I've seen.

And there were so many tears it was like an One Tree Hill episode.

But I don't known why they needed to do Khan. He could have been someone else. Cumberbatch is nothing like the old Khan and didn't try to be. Today I was thinking I wish he was another character. And wouldn't it have been cool if, in the pull back of 'caskets' at the end, they had a CGI-ed up 'old Khan' in one of them? i.e. same group, but this course of history someone else came out of the tube? Then they can have their cake and eat it. I just don't get the point of having Khan.

Stupid decisions like old Spock aside, I feel my major disappointment was this wasn't new. I have waited FOUR years for new Trek, I want new... yet we got more old characters, and not only that one that has been rumoured for seemingly ages.

So that leaves me feeling disappointed. They could have thrown off the shackles and done something fresh.

 

[Michael]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

That's more or less exactly how I feel. And it's interesting, now that you mention it, I think my interest started to wane, too, the moment Harrison was revealed to be Khan. I don't know, why, but it felt really really odd.

 

[Oso Blanco]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

I also agree, except for Spock Prime. I loved his cameo! There can never be enough Spock Prime in nuTrek!

As for Cumberbatch, it would have made more sense for him to be Joaquin or one of the other augments. Showing Khan as one of the still frozen people would indeed have been a nice touch.

 

[Pingfah]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

I agree with a lot of that. I actually really enjoyed the film from start to end, but the constant retreading of old ground is incredibly distracting.

I thought before I even went in, that if the 2nd ST reboot movie was a Khan movie that would be a pretty lame idea, but then to introduce Carol Marcus as well, and lift whole scenes from TWOK and indeed the most iconic line in all of Trek and just swap the characters about was really unnecessary.

As it turned out, it was a good Khan movie IMO, very exciting and Cumberbatch was exceptional in the part. I would have preferred a completely new story, but failing that they should have just left the other references to old trek to the inclusion of the Khan character.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

I thought the film was *perfect* until they redid Wrath of Khan (an old guy got up and walked out!) and then the "KHAAAAAN!" killed it for me with it's awfulness. It was unintentional parody I got my face out of my palm in time to enjoy the final fight, but the film's momentum took a HUGE hit.

Overall I still liked it a lot.

 

[Pingfah]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

I'm just not sure who they are doing it for. New fans aren't going to care, and old fans are just going to find it jarring.

 

[Phily B]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

I really didn't care, the only part I found a bit weird was the Khaaaaaan part.

 

[AntonyF]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

I'm just not sure who they are doing it for. New fans aren't going to care, and old fans are just going to find it jarring.

I think - along with the KHAAANN thing - it almost became too fanboyish. Whereas the first one tried to breakaway from the old one a more, this seemed to want to go back to it. The constant references were a little too much trying to show knowledge of the old.

It reminds me of times like those spin off Pocket Books you get, where you get Conn Officer 2 from an episode of season 2 of TNG in a Deep Space Nine spin off book in 2013.

Which is a shame, as they don't need to do that so much.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

The destruction of the Kelvin would have changed so many things that it's very unlikely that the same 7 people would turn up on the same ship, butterfly effect and all, so I think there's certainly some larger "destiny" path flowing through the trek universe. We see it in the mirror universe to a larger extent, especially in the DS9 episodes.

That's the only way I can justify Khan being there. I was expecting to see the botony bay in orbit of Jupiter though, a shame it wasn't.

They could have kept the same storyline, but instead use another of Khan's crew, and I think that would have been better.

When Pegg was holding Spock back, I was expecting "He'll die/he's dead already".

Visuals were let down by the "need" for 3d as usual (I watched in 2D), just like the hobbit. The race through the "abandoned sector" of Kronos, the ridiculously long cargo bay, the debris field at the end

And 5 minutes from Kronos to Earth at warp speed? Then being blasted out of warp 1 light second away from earth? When were they planning on stopping?!

Anyone got a guess on how many were killed when the ship crashed into San Francisco? Buildings toppling like dominos. Based on the earlier attack on the conference room, there's no "emergency beamout" facility even for a dozen of starfleet's "top brass", let alone thousands of people in apartments and offices. This is a far more devastating blow to Starfleet than the destruction of a few ships around Vulcan.

I liked the Section 31 reference too, I didn't like it being "part of starfleet", rather than "part of the federation", but I can forgive these things.

Overall, I'm fairly easy going. I loved Leonard Nimoy's part. I loved Kirk's womanising at the beginning, Bones was bang on as usual. Sulu showing signs of liking the big chair, how long before we see the Excelsior?

And of course Pine with the final "These are the voyages", wonderful.

I didn't like Spock crying though.

 

[AntonyF]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

Also FWIW this is the sort of film I may like more on the second viewing, as it strips away expectations and disappointments and you watch it more for what it is.

 

[trekkiebaggio]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

I'll echo the general sentiments here. I didn't mind that they used Khan, I was a bit disappointed though because it didn't seem worthy of all the secrecy (especially when compared with how Iron Man 3 handled their villain). The replay of the scene from TWOK didn't have anywhere near the same emotional poignancy of the original. In fact, just thinking aloud here, I almost think it would have been better had the replayed another scene from TWOK - that of Preston's death, but instead of Preston it's Chekhov. As it was there was no drama to Kirk's death because Khan's blood had been telegraphed.

But the main reason why I felt dejected was because at the end when the Enterprise embarked on her five year mission...I really want to see that five year mission! Two hours every three years isn't enough.

 

[Oso Blanco]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

Anyone got a guess on how many were killed when the ship crashed into San Francisco? Buildings toppling like dominos. Based on the earlier attack on the conference room, there's no "emergency beamout" facility even for a dozen of starfleet's "top brass", let alone thousands of people in apartments and offices. This is a far more devastating blow to Starfleet than the destruction of a few ships around Vulcan.

That's what I asked myself. There must have been thousands if not tens of thousends of victims there! But no one seems to worry.

 

[Pingfah]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

Also FWIW this is the sort of film I may like more on the second viewing, as it strips away expectations and disappointments and you watch it more for what it is.

I agree, I expect the stuff that annoyed me to annoy me less next time. That'll be on Blu Ray though.

 

[Cid Highwind]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

Spot on, AnthonyF. I thought the same when watching the movie - not bad overall, but the whole Khan reveal felt like a cheap trick.

Another thing that annoyed me to no end was the fact that several scenes felt as if they were just added to the movie so that they could be used out of context in one of the misleading trailers. For example the villain ship, which looked similar enough to the Enterprise so that its crash into water could have been the Enterprise. Or the Enterprise rising from the ocean in a completely separate scene, made to look as if it might be a follow-up to the crash.

 

[Phily B]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

I loved the crash scene and how you see it move past the Enterprise after the Enterprise recovers.

I think that's actually a neat little "trick" even though most of us nerds who analysed the trailer didn't think it was the Enterprise..

 

[Pingfah]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

Spot on, AnthonyF. I thought the same when watching the movie - not bad overall, but the whole Khan reveal felt like a cheap trick.

Another thing that annoyed me to no end was the fact that several scenes felt as if they were just added to the movie so that they could be used out of context in one of the misleading trailers. For example the villain ship, which looked similar enough to the Enterprise so that its crash into water could have been the Enterprise. Or the Enterprise rising from the ocean in a completely separate scene, made to look as if it might be a follow-up to the crash.

Well that's the fault of the trailer, not the movie. They obviously didn't write their major SFX set pieces with creating a misleading trailer in mind.

 

[Cid Highwind]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

Yeah, but I guess that is part of my (and perhaps Anthony's) problem here. If analyzing helped to find out that the crashing ship wasn't the Enterprise, and if it has been more or less an open secret that Cumberbatch is, in fact, Khan, that just adds insult to injury.

If they had used a ship design completely different from the Enterprise (like, for example, TWOKs Reliant was deliberately made to look different from a refit Connie), then they probably wouldn't have added the crash scene to any of the trailers - because it would (a) have given away the fact that and how the villain ship got destroyed, and (b) not have led to speculation about a TSFS-like destruction of the Enterprise.

What it boils down to is the fact that they were able to use that scene in a trailer because the ships just happened to look alike - or because they were designed to be misleading in the first place. And that I consider a cheap trick.

 

[Cid Highwind]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

Above comment in reply to Phily B.

Well that's the fault of the trailer, not the movie. They obviously didn't write their major SFX set pieces with creating a misleading trailer in mind.

I'm really not so sure about that.

 

[Commishsleer]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

Lots of Starfleet ships look similar and I'm sure that you could make 'The Reliant' look like the Enterprise if it were knocking down a building.

I never thought the ship crashing into buildings in the trailer was the Enterprise however. Don't know why, just didn't think it looked like the Enterprise or that the Enterprise would go down that way, or something.

 

[AntonyF]

Re: Feeling dejected *spoilers*

The whole Enterprise in the trailers/posters things, for some reason I never thought that was Enterprise. I just assumed it was some other ship. It's not uncommon to have Starfleet vessels very similar so thought it was just trickery.

I was annoyed that London was in flames in the posters, yet clearly wasn't in the movie. Aside from that little bomb thing. Because that was a lie - the Gherkin was never on fire.

But the main reason why I felt dejected was because at the end when the Enterprise embarked on her five year mission...I really want to see that five year mission! Two hours every three years isn't enough.

Yeah, that's part of the feeling... had two hours of recycled stuff, but I want new stuff. I loved the cast - it's a shame there can never be a TV series with them, as I'd love to just watch them slow the place and go explore and do Trek things. The movies make space feel BIG - and Kronos was a blast for me because even though it was arguably recycling I wanted to see what it looked like with budget.

I loved the opening intro sequence with the alien civilisation, as it just felt different and fresh too.

That's something I can't really fault the movie with, making me want more Trek... but it is playing into my emotions.