Do we want to know the Doctor's secret?

[RevdKathy]

What's in a name? A timelord by any other name would be as timeywimey...

Where's the rose in "The name of the rose"? How much connection to actual content have the titles had this series? For that matter, is that title the ultimate 'Rose' reference? Do I know what I'm typing about? (clue: no)

 

[I am not Spock]

i wish moffat would hurry up and leave the show, ugh.

I sincerely hope not. It's a damned site better than it was under RTD...

Moffat is massively better than RTD ever was. RTD's episodes were often incredibly stupid. For every Turn Left, or Midnight, you have a silly, frivolous, soapy, stupid Rose and her family episode.

I was never a great fan of Rose. I think the chemistry between Matt and Karen, or Matt and Jenna, is miles better.

 

[The Wormhole]

Two sides of the same coin. RTD came up with better stories, but Moffat writes better characters.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Two sides of the same coin. RTD came up with better stories, but Moffat writes better characters.

I have the completely opposite opinion.

 

[Mr Awe]

Two sides of the same coin. RTD came up with better stories, but Moffat writes better characters.

RTD's goofy stories and magical endings got old. I don't think he had the better stories. I like both RTD and Moffat actually, just for different reasons.

Mr Awe

 

[Iamnotspock]

Two sides of the same coin. RTD came up with better stories, but Moffat writes better characters.

I have the completely opposite opinion.

I agree with you, Mirrorball.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

That being said, I'm very happy with Moffat as the showrunner but the thing I miss about RTD was his unfettered, almost palpable enthusiasm for everything connected to the show. I thought his childlike joy was contagious, and I was always looking forward to his interviews and commentaries.

 

[DalekJim]

Two sides of the same coin. RTD came up with better stories, but Moffat writes better characters.

I think when it comes to storytelling, RTD is actually one of the weakest New Who writers. With the notable exception of Smith & Jones, all his stories end with a deus ex machina. It gets really old on a marathon.

Everybody (Rightfully!) bitches about his finales but The Christmas Invasion has one of his most baffling deus ex machinas. The Doctor pushes a button which just... makes a random bit of platform disappear, killing the Sycorax leader. No attempt is made to explain this at all.

RTD had some good ideas but his obsession with fame, modern day London and the media means his work has dated very badly, with the exception of Smith and Jones, Gridlock, Midnight, Turn Left and Waters of Mars.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Sorry to nitpick but...

The Doctor pushes a button which just... makes a random bit of platform disappear, killing the Sycorax leader. No attempt is made to explain this at all.

What was there to explain exactly? It happened in front of our very eyes. The Doctor just found the right button and he killed the Sycorax leader. Why should it be more complicated than that? Do you really think that the scene would have been better with a little dose of technobabble?

RTD had some good ideas but his obsession with fame, modern day London and the media means his work has dated very badly

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Fame, modern day London and the media all sound like contemporary themes to me, i.e. not dated at all. Or is Black Mirror, which deals with those same themes, dated too?

 

[DalekJim]

What was there to explain exactly? It happened in front of our very eyes. The Doctor just found the right button and he killed the Sycorax leader.

It makes no sense for there to be a random button that makes a random bit of ledge disappear. It's a deus ex machina that has no logical place in the story. It is the sign of a writer feeling they've written enough pages so they just throw in a left-field plot device to finish things up. This happens a lot in Davies scripts. Notably Boomtown and Last of the Time Lords.

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Fame, modern day London and the media all sound like contemporary themes to me, i.e. not dated at all. Or is Black Mirror, which deals with those same themes, dated too?

Well, Black Mirror is a show that deconstructs and satirises the media whereas RTD just filled the show with as much celebrity culture as is possible in order to grab ratings. This had the effect of making it date very fast. What was "cool" in 2006, now looks incredibly lame, dated and confused. Your mileage may vary.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

It makes no sense for there to be a random button that makes a random bit of ledge disappear. It's a deus ex machina that has no logical place in the story.

It makes emotional sense, it's surprising, funny and deeply satisfactory because it's the tenth Doctor first significant victory. But no, it doesn't make sense in a real-world-logic way, and I can see how that could be annoying if you're interested in that kind of things.

Well, Black Mirror is a show that deconstructs and satirises the media whereas RTD just filled the show with as much celebrity culture as is possible in order to grab ratings. This had the effect of making it date very fast. What was "cool" in 2006, now looks incredibly lame, dated and confused. Your mileage may vary.

It does vary, yes. I can remember quite a few stories where pop culture was satirized in RTD's Doctor Who. Just off the top of my head, the Britney Spears song in The End of the World, a song which, quite obviously no one remembers and no one really listens to and is only played because a bunch of decadent rich people desperately want to feel a connection to old Earth but can't because they can't be bothered to learn anything about it, is, in my opinion, a clever pop culture reference.

 

[JoeZhang]

Every show dates - How are the pop culture references any different or worse than Ian dancing around the TARDIS to the Beetles when they tune into Top of the Pops?

 

[DalekJim]

Because almost 50 years later, The Beatles are still relevent, whereas McFly, What Not To Wear and Big Brother won't have the same luck.

I think Doctor Who should always have an anti-ignorance agenda, so I don't like a lot of RTD's indulgences.

 

[Captain Crow]

This whole "He's got a secret" nonsense is a byproduct of that stupid Cartmel Masterplan isn't it?

 

[DalekJim]

Well, I think the characterisation of The Doctor in S25 and S26 is the best ever so I wouldn't mind if it was.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

This whole "He's got a secret" nonsense is a byproduct of that stupid Cartmel Masterplan isn't it?

Not really. The First Doctor had many secrets. In the beginning his name (which is still a secret of some kind), his time/place of origin and why he was seemingly exiled from his home were all mysteries. The Cartmel Masterplan was an attempt to re-inject some mystery into the Doctor after much of his origins had been revealed over the first 25 years of the program. There are many who feel that the mysteries surrounding the Doctor is part of his charm as a character & the series has attempted to maintain some mystery. This has been played up in recent years, but its been a part of the series since day one.

 

[Captain Crow]

Not really.

You sure? The Cartmel Masterplan is were the "there's a big secret about the Doctor" stuff started.

The First Doctor had many secrets. In the beginning his name (which is still a secret of some kind), his time/place of origin and why he was seemingly exiled from his home were all mysteries.

One always came off as deeming those details as unimportant rather than being secretive about them. So I see those as omissions rather than secrets.

The Cartmel Masterplan was an attempt to re-inject some mystery into the Doctor after much of his origins had been revealed over the first 25 years of the program.

I know the reason for it but, it's like an awful fanfic.

I mean honestly, a reincarnation of one of founding members of Time Lord society The Other. Not to mention the looms.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I know the reason for it but, it's like an awful fanfic.

I mean honestly, a reincarnation of one of founding members of Time Lord society The Other. Not to mention the looms.

In a way, it is an awful fanfic, because that's what the show had become at that point. That's not what we're getting now, though.

 

[Captain Crow]

The current show has been in fanfic territory too.

 

[Klaus]

Complaints about shows being "fanfic" = "But it's not MY fanfic!!"