Putting the Shatner "ego issue" from TOS to rest

[Jonas Grumby]

^ They may be, but for my money...

And that's the point. I don't think you can argue that, for whatever reason, the people booking conventions and publishing tell-all books obviously believe the "feud" sells.

Are they right? Or would sales have been even higher if the Trek alumni had put forward a public face of hearty camaraderie? I guess we'll never know.

But, hey, I'm on your side! I even offered a theory on how they could have promoted the "feud" for decades now (as they have) and yet still be buddy-buddies.

 

[1001001]

Okay,

My wife and I just went to a Star Trek convention in San Francisco. We had VIP passes, which included private time with all the stars. Here's what we heard:

George Takei talked about how William Shatner went on the radio talking about how insulted he was that he was not invited to George's wedding (we met his husband Brad, and he was a very cool guy). George said that several months later, when asked, Shatner could not name George's husband. He then asked the crowd "How concerned could he be when he didn't even know my husband's name?? Why would we invite him? He doesn't know us!"

George was asked if any of his castmates knew he was gay. He replied "One day on set, Walter (Keonig) pointed out a particularly handsome extra, and that's when I knew that he knew." So Walter knew George was gay during the 60's, was cool with it, and even tried to hook him up!

I personally saw George and Walter exchange a big, genuine hug backstage. It was obvious to me they were close.

Take that for what you will.

^ They may be, but for my money, I'd much rather see a group of people like the TNG cast who get together on stage, have a lot of fun, and obviously love each other. That's far more entertaining in my book than hearing embittered actors air their dirty laundry.

At the same convention, we saw many TNG actors. And yes, they were all very affectionate with each other. They appeared onstage together, messed with each other, danced with each other, etc. Brent Spiner came to the microphone when LeVar Burton as onstage and messed with him. Marina Sirtis messed with Brent Spiner. We had our picture taken with all of them, and they were genuinely happy to see each other. TNG definitely has Esprit de Corps.

 

[Dale Sams]

All I know is that Shatner's performance in the "Get a Life" sketch is Brill-iant. Especially given that he had very little time to rehearse it.

If I were to ever ask Shatner one of those "Do you remember when this tiny bit of minutiae occured" questions...it would be "Did you expect Phil Hartman to shove you like that? Cause you two are pushing each other...very...hard."

 

[Winterwind]

I always find it funny that during the production of TOS, Nimoy also line counted, made demands, and took advantage of his swelling popularity--it was about himself, not the supporting players (he did not become their official champion until the casting issues surrounding the animated series), yet they do not attack him, when his own demands certainly (in the big picutre) limited the supporters' weekly parts.

An excellent point.

 

[Dale Sams]

I always find it funny that during the production of TOS, Nimoy also line counted, made demands, and took advantage of his swelling popularity--it was about himself, not the supporting players (he did not become their official champion until the casting issues surrounding the animated series), yet they do not attack him, when his own demands certainly (in the big picutre) limited the supporters' weekly parts.

An excellent point.

But did he intentionally tank a scene with Takei that would have given him (Takei) command of a starship 4 films earlier than VI? Hnnh? HNNH!?

At least I think I read that.

 

[YARN]

But did he intentionally tank a scene with Takei that would have given him (Takei) command of a starship 4 films earlier than VI? Hnnh? HNNH!?

At least I think I read that.

Takei commanding his own ship in Star Trek II? Where does that scene come in? I've seen the film and special features and there is no mention of this.

More importantly, most people didn't really care to see a Captain Sulu. One gets the sense that Takei is sore that he never got his chance to be Captain Kirk.

 

[Gov Kodos]

But did he intentionally tank a scene with Takei that would have given him (Takei) command of a starship 4 films earlier than VI? Hnnh? HNNH!?

At least I think I read that.

Takei commanding his own ship in Star Trek II? Where does that scene come in? I've seen the film and special features and there is no mention of this.

More importantly, most people didn't really care to see a Captain Sulu. One gets the sense that Takei is sore that he never got his chance to be Captain Kirk.

It could be my imagination, but in III there was supposed to be a scene where Sulu gets offered command of Excelsior. It happens around the same time Kirk contacts him about stealing the Enterprise. I could be remembering a scene from the book, though.

 

[YARN]

It could be my imagination, but in III there was supposed to be a scene where Sulu gets offered command of Excelsior. It happens around the same time Kirk contacts him about stealing the Enterprise. I could be remembering a scene from the book, though.

OK. I don't see how that scene would have served the needs of the plot (i.e., Kirk escaping from Captain Pompous on his pompous new ship). If it was there, however, I'd be curious as to why it was there. Did Takei make demands?

 

[Gov Kodos]

It could be my imagination, but in III there was supposed to be a scene where Sulu gets offered command of Excelsior. It happens around the same time Kirk contacts him about stealing the Enterprise. I could be remembering a scene from the book, though.

OK. I don't see how that scene would have served the needs of the plot (i.e., Kirk escaping from Captain Pompous on his pompous new ship). If it was there, however, I'd be curious as to why it was there. Did Takei make demands?

You'd need someone to say if it is in the book or not since I don't have it to confirm the scene is there or just my misremembering. It's absence doesn't change the flow of the movie. If there were anything to add, I'd rather it were how Uhura ran electronic interference for the get away and got out of the transporter station and to the Vulcan Embassy for asylum.

 

[DalekJim]

Shatner was a douche in the 60s, got over it, yet now spends his time being heckled by people who's general role in Trek was saying "Aye sir!" or fiddling with buttons in the background.

I know which ones have the ego issue and desire for attention. Shatner being so brilliant as Kirk is what helped gain Star Trek's fanbase and what made these people rich. They should be kissing his ass every day.

 

[Mr_Homn]

God, who really cares? Actors are in their own tiny little world. There are a bunch of people involved with Star Trek that had a far larger impact than George Takei or Nichelle Nichols who most people don't even know the name of. They probably worked harder and longer hours than any of the actors who got paid far more than they did. The behind the scenes people who rigged up special effects shots or made sure that Nimoy's ears stayed glued on or those who stayed extra hours away from their families to build those famously shitty and classic alien worlds.

But since we see the faces and hear the voices of these glorified extras like george effin' takei they have more weight and people actually seem to give a shit what they say. God knows why. The man was lucky to have an regular TV acting gig at all. Look, he seems like a very friendly guy for the most part, but plenty of people are friendly guys, and he's clearly not anything special talent wise, and neither were most of the other glorified extras who embellish and exaggerate their star trek related stories year after year on the convention circuit.

Do something other than Star Trek for once in your life and maybe we'll take you more seriously when you bitch and moan about your far more talented co-stars from 45 years ago.

 

[Melakon]

What else can George do? Nobody wants to hear him bitch about John Wayne in The Green Berets.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

What else can George do? Nobody wants to hear him bitch about John Wayne in The Green Berets.

He's out of gas on ST whining, so if he's smart, he can start bitching about that Nickelodeon show he's on called Supah Ninjas (from what i've heard, its a Rush Hour rip off. Yay).

 

[Ssosmcin]

Oh, regarding the title of the thread: the ego issue will NEVER be put to rest. Not by us, anyway.

But did he intentionally tank a scene with Takei that would have given him (Takei) command of a starship 4 films earlier than VI? Hnnh? HNNH!?

At least I think I read that.

Takei commanding his own ship in Star Trek II? Where does that scene come in? I've seen the film and special features and there is no mention of this.

More importantly, most people didn't really care to see a Captain Sulu. One gets the sense that Takei is sore that he never got his chance to be Captain Kirk.

Sulu was supposed to get command of the Excelsior, I believe, in Star Trek II. Kirk was supposed to mention it in the shuttle ride to the Enterprise; notice Sulu's line cut off halfway through: "any chance to go aboard the Enterprise" - he is clearly supposed to keep talking. Then they cut to the exterior shot and then back to Kirk talking about Sulu back "at the helm for three weeks." From what I've heard (from Takei somewhere?), Shatner kept screwing up his lines (intentionally) and it turned out badly so it was cut.

I call shenanigans. Would any director let this crap go on? Nick Meyer seemed to know how to handle Shatner. It was most likely just not considered relevant. Jimmy Doohan also accused Shatner of having the "Scotty's nephew" references taken out. They sure gave Shatner credit for a LOT of behind the scenes control. As my mom always said, though; consider the source.

Then in Star Trek 6, Takei supposedly told Shatner, excitedly, that he was getting his own command at last. Shatner looked at him, non-plussed, and said "why? All of the action takes place on the Enterprise?" Shatner was confused as to why an actor would want to take himself away from the main action. That's actually a good point, but Takei did some of his best work in Trek 6, so what do I know? He obviously relished the change in Sulu's role and it was an interesting choice to have two starships play a large part in the climax. Although, I would have preferred to see 1701 have more to do in the fight than being a punching bag for Chang.

Back in the 70's, the Star Trek cast was portrayed, in books, to be closely knit. "The friendliest set in Hollywood" according to David Gerrold. I loved that. Honestly, when all this Shatner Bashing started, I was bummed. I preferred them to be close. Now, I dno't care at all, but as a kid, thinking they were all friends was pretty awesome.

 

[Forbin]

Of late, I've heard Koenig being very reasonable and saying "You know what? we were extras and day players. Bill was the star."

 

[Mr Awe]

^ They may be, but for my money, I'd much rather see a group of people like the TNG cast who get together on stage, have a lot of fun, and obviously love each other. That's far more entertaining in my book than hearing embittered actors air their dirty laundry.

Yup, exactly what I was saying and I agree 100%. Much better to see a group who respect each other and have fun together.

The TOS situation used to detract from my enjoyment slightly. Not any more but I had to get to a state where the actor situation didn't influence my enjoyment of the series.

Mr Awe

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

^ They may be, but for my money, I'd much rather see a group of people like the TNG cast who get together on stage, have a lot of fun, and obviously love each other. That's far more entertaining in my book than hearing embittered actors air their dirty laundry.

Yup, exactly what I was saying and I agree 100%. Much better to see a group who respect each other and have fun together.

The TOS situation used to detract from my enjoyment slightly. Not any more but I had to get to a state where the actor situation didn't influence my enjoyment of the series.

Mr Awe

I've always been able to completely divorce the ego/personality of any Trek actor from the beloved characters portrayed on screen.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Of late, I've heard Koenig being very reasonable and saying "You know what? we were extras and day players. Bill was the star."

Walter was always the least vocal of the Gang of Four. He was also the one I met a few times who didn't seem like he was putting on some kind of show. He just seemed more real.

 

[Dale Sams]

^ They may be, but for my money, I'd much rather see a group of people like the TNG cast who get together on stage, have a lot of fun, and obviously love each other. That's far more entertaining in my book than hearing embittered actors air their dirty laundry.

Yup, exactly what I was saying and I agree 100%. Much better to see a group who respect each other and have fun together.

The TOS situation used to detract from my enjoyment slightly. Not any more but I had to get to a state where the actor situation didn't influence my enjoyment of the series.

Mr Awe

I've always been able to completely divorce the ego/personality of any Trek actor from the beloved characters portrayed on screen.

Definitly. If Doohan is standing there hating Shatners guts while giving great line readings...then all credit to Doohan.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Of late, I've heard Koenig being very reasonable and saying "You know what? we were extras and day players. Bill was the star."

Yeah, he guested on Shatner's talk show and made it clear that he was totally over it. For his part, Shatner was very complimentary and gracious to his guest. It was an excellent interview.


I saw Doohan back in '86, right after TVH had come out. He was slamming Shatner all night and came off as very petty, which is a shame, because he seemed like a lovely and charming man, otherwise. But that bee in his bonnet got the best of him. At one point a girl in the audience stood up and simply asked, "What did Shatner DO to you that you hate him so?"
She got a round of applause. Doohan got testy and refused to answer.