True, you wouldn't really have orbital control until you'd neutralized that kind of threat. But a starship vs. surface weaponry is more analogous to ship vs. shore battery, I don't really see how that enters into the infantry question.
Justin
Starfleet Marine Corps
- Thread starter Danlav05
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True, you wouldn't really have orbital control until you'd neutralized that kind of threat. But a starship vs. surface weaponry is more analogous to ship vs. shore battery, I don't really see how that enters into the infantry question.
Justin
Since Starfleet is called "Starfleet" and not "United Federation Navy", I doubt that any Federation ground troops are called "Marines" either. 
IMO, Starfleet Security probably maintains some units who are specialized and trained in ground warfare.
IMO, Starfleet Security probably maintains some units who are specialized and trained in ground warfare.
Peace through strength.
And like I said, Marines have many missions other than combat. Look it up.
^ Like I keep saying: Starfleet Security is only for providing security officers on board starships. Those are clearly not qualified to be marines as we understand the term. I mean, look at the redshirts you've seen in TOS. Would you want people like that, who seem to get killed at an alarming rate, to be fighting on the front lines?
^ Like I keep saying: Starfleet Security is only for providing security officers on board starships. Those are clearly not qualified to be marines as we understand the term. I mean, look at the redshirts you've seen in TOS. Would you want people like that, who seem to get killed at an alarming rate, to be fighting on the front lines?
Weren't they (and by they mean I mean the individuals assigned to the fight) dropping at pretty much the same rate on AR-558?
Except ironically enough, on Enterprise, when A, they realised they needed capable, trained soldiers ie the MACO's and then B made the MACO, actually capable, savvy, tough and experienced on screen.....remember when the roped in for that rescue ect.
people in trek doing practicle things in combat, my word..
Dramatic effect...^ Like I keep saying: Starfleet Security is only for providing security officers on board starships. Those are clearly not qualified to be marines as we understand the term. I mean, look at the redshirts you've seen in TOS. Would you want people like that, who seem to get killed at an alarming rate, to be fighting on the front lines?
Weren't they (and by they mean I mean the individuals assigned to the fight) dropping at pretty much the same rate on AR-558?
We have to keep in mind what would be logical in a real world ST universe is often not capable of being produced on TV for various reasons, from budget to dramatic...
You can't really afford to have 45+ actors going through a small unit combat skills course for a 45 minute episode.....plus AR-558 was designed to show "THE HORROR!"tm....
Look at the difference in something BOB, The Pacific or BHD where the actors went through a boot camp so they could at least fake it it decently....then laugh at the ground combat in ST.
PS before anyone gives out about ground warfare being ..outmoded ect in ST....well despite it's flaws we saw several ground battles and others were mentoned includng the Klingons rather large invasion of Cardassia.
There might not be Kursk sized battles but beaming and sensors have been jammed and disrupted and even local climate/planetary conditons has proved to be capable of screwing up all the fancy technology....so maybe good old MK-I eyeballs and boots on the ground might be needed on occasion.
^ Like I keep saying: Starfleet Security is only for providing security officers on board starships. Those are clearly not qualified to be marines as we understand the term. I mean, look at the redshirts you've seen in TOS. Would you want people like that, who seem to get killed at an alarming rate, to be fighting on the front lines?
Weren't they (and by they mean I mean the individuals assigned to the fight) dropping at pretty much the same rate on AR-558?
At least then, they died WELL. They weren't incompetent, like most redshirts seemed to be.
Why you keep saying this? Why is this the only thing they can do? If a Starfleet pilot can fly anything from a huge starship to a shuttle and even to a 20th century helicopter, I'd assume the security personnel to be pretty diversely trained too.
Again, why? What exact things you expect the marines could do that the SF security can't?
I assume that dying in alarming rates is exactly what the soldiers in front lines do, so they would be eminently qualified.I mean, look at the redshirts you've seen in TOS. Would you want people like that, who seem to get killed at an alarming rate, to be fighting on the front lines?
Not everyone is like Sulu.
As for the redshirts: They were incompetent because they always went off wandering on their own and were thus the first people to get killed by the alien rock monster thingy or whatever. Real soldiers wouldn't die that easily.
That's silly. That's just TV story convention and tells us nothing about the competene of the security as a whole. In Star Wars the Stormtroopers were supposedly the Empire's elite soldiers and they died like flies and could hit the side of a barn. In TV and movies extras die and that has nothing to do with their competence or training.
Why deploy a group of security from a starship, if the starship itself isn't needed for the problem.
The Marines (or Army) could be deployed to member world where there are overwhelming medical problems like a epidemic, or a quarantine. Where there there has been a natural disaster, tidal wave, hurricane, earthquake, etc. The Marines comes in and do the long term work, months or years.
Think of all the problems that might require the introduction of a organized external force, but doesn't need to tie down multiple exploration starships in orbit for a protracted period of time.
Kirk's ship carried what? Thirty plus security? After the earthquake in Haiti, over ten thousand American troops were sent to the island to help.
I think its obvious that Starfleet's Security Division serves on all Starfleet facilities, not just on Starships. Their duties probably extend beyond being muscle, MPs and guards as well. In the TNG episode the Pegasus, Starfleet Security was developing a cloaking device and in the Drumhead the head of the Security Division was the person who effectively shut down Admiral Satie. So it would appear that Security has jurisdiction over intelligence, espionage and matters of National Security. IRL, when my father was in the USAAF he was in the Security Service (now called Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance Agency) and he was not an MP. So it's possible that Starfleet Security might have ground forces under it's purview as well.
That's the thing I don't like about most TV / movies. All the police forces / enemy forces / allied forces are portrayed as incompetant boobs who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.
Reality is that most forces are reasonable to well trained and would put somebody down.
At least in "24" they portrayed their forces to be pretty decent in a combat situation.
Even in "Enterprise" the MACO's didn't drop like flies. The sheer number of MACO's that died are very few, even the extras got some real fight time that made them look competant.
My main issue is with Hollywood and making badguys / goodguys look like fools to make the other side look good. Everybody should be following the "24" mentality where both sides are competant and show them to use brains when approaching a situation.
I know it's a little bit difficult to ask, but make both sides intelligent for once. -_-
Reality is that most forces are reasonable to well trained and would put somebody down.
At least in "24" they portrayed their forces to be pretty decent in a combat situation.
Even in "Enterprise" the MACO's didn't drop like flies. The sheer number of MACO's that died are very few, even the extras got some real fight time that made them look competant.
My main issue is with Hollywood and making badguys / goodguys look like fools to make the other side look good. Everybody should be following the "24" mentality where both sides are competant and show them to use brains when approaching a situation.
I know it's a little bit difficult to ask, but make both sides intelligent for once. -_-
Once again, these mythical Starfleet Marines are Starfleet Security. Just like we have someone wearing a blue sciences uniform specialize in biology, I think we can have gold security specialize in ground combat.
But they are not called Starfleet Marines. They are a part of the already existing Starfleet Security division. Starfleet is the Federations defense agency, and if Starfleet personnel are defending a colony against a Klingon attack or holding a communications array from the Dominion, then they are a part of Starfleets combat division, known as Starfleet Security (providing Security, one dead Jem'Hadar at a time).
But they are not called Starfleet Marines. They are a part of the already existing Starfleet Security division. Starfleet is the Federations defense agency, and if Starfleet personnel are defending a colony against a Klingon attack or holding a communications array from the Dominion, then they are a part of Starfleets combat division, known as Starfleet Security (providing Security, one dead Jem'Hadar at a time).
To nitpick, "The Pegasus" spoke of two separate branches, SF Security and SF Intelligence; it was the first episode to explicitly refer to this latter, supposedly more clandestine and underhanded sub-organization, a plot element the writer Ron D. Moore had long itched to introduce. It was SF Intel that was responsible for the development of the cloak against the UFP's interstellar legal commitments, while SF Security was only mentioned in passing, with SF Intel representative Admiral Pressman claiming that the Security branch boss was okay with what was going on. Considering what transpired, the claim was probably untrue or at least partially misleading.
SF Security does investigate. But rather than being "spooks", they are more like "cops" when doing this. Indeed, it appears that SF Security is the de facto only law enforcement force in the entire Federation, rather than just within Starfleet...
Timo Saloniemi
But didn't the guy in "Search for Spock", who apprehended McCoy in a bar for trying to get passage to Genesis, identify himself as Federation Security?
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